Braunvieh??

[IHman]

Looking for input on Braunvieh cattle, considering some cows to run with Hereford bulls or a Braunvieh bull to put on blk & bwf cows. I currently run Herefords bulls on my angus cows & Charlais and Simme bulls on the bwf cows. What are some thoughts on the Herf X Braun? Not sure if I would get a bwf calf or a smokie wf or would they be mostly rwf? What are your experiances with the braun cow? TIA

 

[Lucky_P]

Never had any, never worked with any, but always wanted some. May try AI-ing a few of my high % Angus cows that are brown/gray due to a yellow Simmental bull several generations back to Braunvieh bulls just to see how they do.
I've always liked the look of 'em.

Some local Beefmaster breeders ran several Braunvieh bulls on their commercial herd several years back, and have loved the cows they kept back - and the calves they produce - but said the Braunvieh bulls were the meanest things they'd ever had on the place(and they've run a Jersey bull on heifers from time to time).

Saw enough HerefordXBrown Swiss cattle when I was in practice, that I can tell you you'll probably get some brindle calves out of that cross. Don't know if you'll catch any discrimination(or premium!) for those 'tiger-stripe' calves at the salebarn, but they ought to make good mamas.

My biggest concern is whether or not the calves are as slow to get started as the Brown Swiss are infamous for being.
Old veterinary joke(and a Swiss veterinarian told me that he heard it back in the 'old country') :
Dairyman who milks Brown Swiss calls his veterinarian; "I have a bull calf that you need to come look at. Something's wrong with him."
"What seems to be the problem?" asked the veterinarian.
"He knows how to nurse." replied the dairyman.

 

[dun]

Old veterinary joke(and a Swiss veterinarian told me that he heard it back in the 'old country') :
Dairyman who milks Brown Swiss calls his veterinarian; "I have a bull calf that you need to come look at. Something's wrong with him."
"What seems to be the problem?" asked the veterinarian.
"He knows how to nurse." replied the dairyman.

Best laugh I've had in a loooong time, thanks

 

[UG]

We've got a few Braunviehs females on the place and never had any issues with calves not wanting to get up and nurse. But, the calves have all been 1/2 and 1/4 Braunvieh. It would interesting to see if the purebreds and fullbloods would be different. We really like the few we have and will likely add more to the operation in the future as we pick-up more grass.

Like Lucky_P mentioned, you will likely get some brindles from crossing Braunvieh with Herefords. My guess is that they would get docked significantly at most sale barns. The few brindle marked cattle that I have seen out of Braunvieh bulls and red cows have been pretty ugly, especially in the winter months when the hair coat is shaggy.

Our limited experience with Braunviehs is that the dispositions are actually very good. However, we have not run any Braunvieh or Braunvieh influenced bulls on our place.

 

[Roadapple]

I've ran Braunvieh bulls for 5 yrs now and I've never had a single problem with them. I've never had to assist one calf at birth, never had to teach them to nurse, never had a problem with them growing. Only problem I've had with them is, you better Lute 'em at weaning. As far as the bulls being mean, all I can say is...Bull. I,ve got cats that are meaner than they are. Not at all like a well known black breed that you could'nt get near or want to. Won't have any of them again. In fact the Vet practically lived here with the problems I had with them. But the Braunvieh's are good mothers, good milkers, with a butt that alot of bulls don't have. Dang good cattle as far as I'm concerned.

 

[UG]

I agree with Roadapple...Braunvieh are a very good breed. They could do a lot of good for most operations by adding growth, muscle, and female fertility. For those commercial operations that sell finished cattle on a grid, and think that Angus is the only breed, they would be surprised how well the Braunvieh cattle will grade.

Acceptance of the Braunvieh breed has likely been limited due to their color (buyers frequently discount the "Brown Swiss" looking calves), relatively high birth weights by many Braunvieh bulls, and the fact that a relatively small percentage of the Braunviehs are homo polled.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

I think the color can also lead to some tiger stripes when crossed.

 

[dun]

I think the color can also lead to some tiger stripes when crossed.

Brindle is the recessive color coat for them

 

[Lucky_P]

Thanks roadapple & UG - strengthens my resolve to try some Braunvieh - as I said, I've always liked the looks of 'em, and since I want to keep 1/4-1/2 'Continental' influence in my cowherd, some Braunvieh crosses oughta work just as well as Simmental crosses.
Color may be the biggest stumbling block, due to resistance from buyers; guess I ought use 'em on the black cows, and breed the gray/brown cows to black bulls.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think you can find some black ones now also. Saw some at a couple of the shows. I am sure they were called purebred.
I really like the fullblood but the market has kept me from trying them.

 

[Baldie Maker]

mystic hill has a polled black bull that is a purebred i believe and broken oak has a three quarter bull aswell. I believe semen is available on both of them.

 

[VLS_GUY]

The original Braunvieh is a great cattle breed that could have taken off in North America. The importers of these cattle were a group of German Swiss brothers George and Martin Urlich that raised Horned Herefords with their other brother Hans at Claresholm (Lilydale Herefords). They brought over Aron the first OB bull imported. These brothers were descended from a long line of stockmen in Switzerland and their family owned the imports they brought over so they had an advantage as they knew all about the animals pedigrees-a big advantage.
Check out the story on their website: http://www.original-braunvieh.com/. Makes for interesting reading.
The problem the Braunvieh faced was that they never developed a domestic market for their bulls. When they got a good one they usually sold him to Mexico. I don't think I could by a set of 10 uniform Braunvieh yearling bulls of acceptable quality at any price right now. A sad state of affairs in my opinion.
The Braunvieh has performance similar to a Fleckvieh; Birth Weights can be high. They also can be very heavy fronted. That said they also had some outstanding individuals like Swiss Tradition Ricco. Check him out on the Urlich's website. When they say he was the world's best they weren't kidding.

 

[Roadapple]

If you feed them out and sell on the grid, does'nt matter what their color is, does it? Braunvieh influenced pens at the Great Western Beef Expo lead all breeds in achieving 100 % Yeild Grade 1 & 2, choice or higher carcasses. The most prevalent Braunvieh cross today is a Braunvieh x Angus hybred or BraunAngus. These hybrids meet Cab live specs. in the feedlot as well as record lower yield grades than straight bred Angus cattle. Braunvieh-sired replacement females have proven to remain in production longer than Angus replacement females when managed the same in a commercial setting. Check some Braunvieh web sites and see if they have uniform sets of cattle. Save you some time, they do.

 

[VLS_GUY]

Roadapple,

The problem is lack of numbers in the yearling and 2 year old bull market. I like to buy bulls that are phenotypically and genetically close. The Braunvieh breeders seemed more in tune with supplying Mexico than their neighbors when it came to bulls. I want choice on all the bull pen not just the ones the Mexicans left behind. Another problem is lack of ROP and EPD data to let you compare animals to one another. Is the breed working on improving this data?
So what do you think of Peter Urlich's cattle?

 

[Lucky_P]

Yeah, I know they've got black Braunviehs, but hell, if I'm gonna breed one, I want that gray/brown cow!
They've already turned my beloved Simmentals solid black - and did the same to the Gelbvieh cattle, too - and, has anybody seen a red Maine bull in years? Black Charolais and Beefmasters? They're out there.

I'm using black Angus - and yes, a black Simmental - to move my motley herd back toward black because that's what the buyers here seem want, but if I want a cow or two in the herd for ME to look at, that's not just a plain ol' solid black cow, I guess maybe I ought stick some Braunvieh semen in some of those mousy grays before they're all replaced by black daughters. I'd breed some Pinzgauer, too, if the buyers didn't think they were Longhorn crosses and dock the hell out of me at sale time; they're good cattle, too.

 

[kenny thomas]

Sounds like you have the same opinion as my wife. She says she wants a couple of Swiss color and it does not matter what I think. Hard to argue with the boss. :roll:

 

[Angus Cowman]

Sounds like you have the same opinion as my wife. She says she wants a couple of Swiss color and it does not matter what I think. Hard to argue with the boss. :roll:

Since when did she let you think :lol2: :lol2:

 

[UG]

Lucky_P,

Like you, I also prefer cattle in their original color. Though the majority of our herd is black (due to the demands of the market) I really enjoy seeing our few traditionally colored brown/gray Braunviehs and red Gelbviehs. If I had my druthers I'd like to have a few traditionally marked Simmentals in the herd as well, and maybe even a traditionally colored Maine, etc.

 

[kenny thomas]

I can think but just have to keep my mouth shut. Sometimes it might be a good thing that she doesn't know what I am thinking.

 

[3waycross]

Lucky_P,

Like you, I also prefer cattle in their original color. Though the majority of our herd is black (due to the demands of the market) I really enjoy seeing our few traditionally colored brown/gray Braunviehs and red Gelbviehs. If I had my druthers I'd like to have a few traditionally marked Simmentals in the herd as well, and maybe even a traditionally colored Maine, etc.

My cousin raises Full Fleck Simmentals and pastures them at 9 to 10 thousand feet in the summer. His calves are VERY impressive, both in color and size.