Brangus V. Braford

[East Caney]

By mid-summer, I will be getting 10-20 head of one of these breeds. I really need help understanding the advantages of these breeds.

What characteristics are best from each breed? Is one a typically a better milker? (I know F1 Brafords-Tigerstripes are considered great momma cows but I want to know about the true 3/8-5/8 braford)

Which one is a larger mature cow, and how great is the difference?

Which breed has more growthy calves by weaning time? I really want to wean before 6 months.

My goal is to keep some replacements out the mommas and probably a Simmental bull. My main goal, however, is to send steers to the sale barn.

All information given is appreciated. I thought I posted a similar topic last night, but I don't see it anywhere....must have hit a wrong button.

 

[Kent]

There's not much difference between the two breeds. Just look for quality cattle, whichever you choose. If it were me, I would use either a black Simmental bull or a Charolais bull on Braford cows, or use a red-white-face Simmy bull on Brangus cows. You will end up with black calves with white or mottled faces, or buckskin with white faces. Either calf will sell well all over the Southern half of the country.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the biggest difference in the two is temperment and that can vary and heat tolerance on the brangus is less than the braford .depending where you are located could make a little difference in milk production. but either one are great momas and with that simm. bull will make great growthy calves. cause there is plenty of milk for um

 

[East Caney]

Thanks for the info. I've been debating the issue for a while and couldn't draw a conclusion.

What is the difference in mature size between the two?

 

[Bez!]

By mid-summer, I will be getting 10-20 head of one of these breeds. I really need help understanding the advantages of these breeds.

What characteristics are best from each breed? Is one a typically a better milker? (I know F1 Brafords-Tigerstripes are considered great momma cows but I want to know about the true 3/8-5/8 braford)

Which one is a larger mature cow, and how great is the difference?

Which breed has more growthy calves by weaning time? I really want to wean before 6 months.

My goal is to keep some replacements out the mommas and probably a Simmental bull. My main goal, however, is to send steers to the sale barn.

All information given is appreciated. I thought I posted a similar topic last night, but I don't see it anywhere....must have hit a wrong button.

Ok - I will pop in for a bit.

Because you are a low numbered poster I will assume - possibly incorreectly that you are relatively new to this - if not you may pick a few choice items out of this. If not at all then maybe another reader will.

You wanna' buy cows.

Great. If you have the infrastructure for them - let's get on with it. If you do not, then stop and build - then buy.

First things first. You need a STRONG pen - made of something other than wire fencing to hold the new arrivals. I know some folks do not like to go this way, but I recommend at least 6 feet high, solid wood with a heavy rail on top to prevent them from crushing it when - not if - someone tries to escape over the top. Any cow can try to go over - if you stop them they do not continue - if you do not stop them they become your worst nightmare.

My second choice is steel - more expensive, but in my mind a better choice.

No matter - always build at east on pen that is guaranteed to have NO escapees!

5 Feet tall does not cut it - 6 is best - mine is even taller.

Lock them up for at least a week and decide on which ones are not going to give you probs. You might seriously consider selling those who do not settle in. It only takes one beach to ruin a herd - toss the high headed one(s) before you let them out on pasture. Even if you take a loss in bucks - it will save you a terrific amount of grief.

For this reason you should also have some type of very secure handling system available - BEFORE you bring the animals home.

When you let them out - they go into a small field.

All water and feed stays in the catch pen they just spent the week or so in. That way they will always come home. The first field they go into should always be accessed through your main catch pen. Keeps it easy to round them up until your home truly becomes their home.

You might want to give a loud and continuous "Hey Girls" or something like that when you feed them. This will condition them to come to the call. Even if they are locked in the pen.

You might look like a goof while you are training them, but for sure you will be the big dog on the walk when - not if - they get out. You will walk out there with a pail and they will come on the run.

Now you want to buy a specific breed. That is fine. In my opinion you will do well with both. So let's talk about the animal purchase itself.

If you are ready to go for a drive and do some buying - leave your cheque book at home. Know in advance exactly what you are willing to spend. Stay within the budget - no sense breaking the bank on something that can die in transit.

When you look at the animals - walk in the herd. On foot or on horse - makes no mind to me. But on foot if that is the way you will handle them when you get them home.

If they run you - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "calming" business.

If they take off at high speed when you approach - take your truck and your money and leave. I do not care how nice they are - you are not in the cattle "retrieving" business.

How I buy cattle for the place - which I seldom do now.

You mark them - paint gun works. You record the tag numbers. You cut them out and run them through the chutes and squeeze at the sellers place. Any attitude observed here puts them - IMMEDIATELY - back in the sellers herd.

Look at the records the seller has on his suggested animals. If he has no records - I leave. I want to know what I am buying and where they come from and how they are bred and .... well, you get the idea. Never buy unknowns if you are not an old hand in the business - lots of folks will be more than happy to sell you their troubles, take your money and lock the gate when you leave.

I have a veterinarian come to the sellers place. I have each animal inspected. Completely. If vaccinations are not up to date we do them on the spot. Sometimes I pay and sometimes I split this cost - depends on my mood and the relationship I have with the seller.

I split the veterinarians' mileage bill with the seller. I pay the veterinarian cost for the animals I buy. The seller pays for the animals that are inspected but I kick out of the line up.

Same goes for any calves that might be coming along.

I pay for the trucking to my place.

I get the following from the seller.

1. Copy of complete veterinarinan bill.

2. Copy of veterinarian report. I want this in a big way.

3. Copy of all breeding and health care notes.

4. Copy of final receipt.

5. Any guarantees I can get from the seller - safe in calf - will continue to breed - vaccinations up to date as per our agreement and so on. Return of animals if required. You get the drift.

The breed? Well, I like them both despite admitting I know little about them. Biggest thing I notice about small holders is they tend to get caught up in the minutia and allow the devil to tie up the details.

Both are quite acceptable and both will serve you well. Just be sure to buy what fits YOUR program. And if at all possible buy cow, calf at side and already safe in calf.

Instant herd, instant replacements, instant cash flow and first year breeding - all taken care of while you settle in with your new responsibilities and learn what it takes to raise cattle.

If you are a newbie - do not - please do not - buy an entire herd of bred hiefers - you are not ready - trust me on this.

Find a reputable breeder or two or more and visit them all. If they know you are a serious buyer they will treat you well, answer your questions, assist you in future projects and do their darndest to BUILD A RELATIONSHIP.

They really do want your return business. And you want to give it to them if you find the right place. Trust me on this - relationships in the cattle industry will make you or break you.

Besides - if you have a few good years the seller may indeed become YOUR buyer!

If you have all of the above looked after, you are well on your way and either animal will fit YOUR situation.

Buy quality NOT quantity - if you are newbie take an old hand along with you.

I am sure I left some stuff out - but the old hands here will fill it in.

Forgive the un-asked for advice - often these are the details that are often over looked. In closing - both breeds will serve you well.

Good luck,

Bez!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Do what Bez says first

It's all about money black baldie calves always bring top dollar.
If I was going to run Brangus it would be with a Hereford bull.

Now the Braford cow you can turn the calf crop whatever color you want. Black calves are hot black bull red calves are hot red bull, Char bull to make high yellows.

If this old wore out cattleman was starting over today it would be Brangus cows and a Hereford bull, I have a few Brangus and that cross brings top dollar every time.

 

[VanC]

BEZ- That was one of the best posts I've seen in a long time. :clap: :clap:

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Consider what will be available in your area too. It always helps to have a ready available supply and a breeder to back up his product. I started a Braford herd because the foundation herd is next door, and they gaurantee every animal they sell against defects. Believe me that helps, especially if your not real keen on what your doing yet. Both breeds are excellent cattle, not known to be docile, but good mothers and moneymakers.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Bez, That kinda sums up what I did,,,,and yes I am still small and growing slow. I get impatient sometimes but I always calm down and think out every purchase.

I have a good catch pen and sweep and chute to medicate them and a corral at the center of my current pastures and I am in the process of building alley ways between all my pastures that bring the cows back to the house for water and food. I have them trained to come to my call or the truck horn and I can walk in with them anytime.

I had some local people question why I went and purchased all the things I have now (chute,head gate, AI/Palp cage) I think it was the best thing I did up to this point, besides not exceeding my spending limit that I set when I go to an auction.

good to see a post like that Bez

 

[C HOLLAND]

ONE MORE thing, I have a complete meds package ready to go at all times, and the phone number to 2 local Vets.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

Have a look around your area and see whats about and that sells well. Both Braford and Brangus are good breeds provided they have enough Brahman content. I think of the two breeds you can get away with the Brangus having a bit less Brahman for some reason.
Depends where you live of course. Here in Australia in a more Hereford area you can have Brafords without too much trouble and they'll sell ok. Brangus sell more readily in the warmer areas.
I still don't see why quality cattle of any breed shouldn't sell well in every area.
We offered pure South Devon heifers at our local saleyards last week,well prepared and quality all the way through,yet we were offered less money than some underdone Angus and Hereford pens of the same age. Cattle buyers really rule our beef industry. They pay good money for rubbish and less for good in lots of cases. Any way our heifers are home and enjoying some one that loves the breed. They had too much potential just to let them go for next to nothing. They will grow into good breeders.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

East Caney

As the old saying goes, "It's the little things that make a difference" or something like that. But, whatever the saying is, the little things that most people overlook are usually the one's which spell the difference between their making a profit at the end of the year or not! This post from Bez is a practical and down to earth as any I have ever read in one concise package! My advice would be for you to print this out in BIG, BLACK LETTERS, take it to Kinko's or the like, have them seal it in sturdy plastic and keep it in whatever vehicle you use to go to buy cattle! This will save you more money than you can believe.

BEZ- here is a suggestion for you. Print up a bunch of these suggestions yourself, title them,

BEZ' BOOMER IDEAS FOR BEEF BUYERS

, have them sealed in sturdy plastic and make them available to all members of these Boards! These are money savers and time savers!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm2]

Have a look around your area and see whats about and that sells well. Both Braford and Brangus are good breeds provided they have enough Brahman content. I think of the two breeds you can get away with the Brangus having a bit less Brahman for some reason.

I may be about to show my ignorance but here in the U.S. most!! Brafords and Branguses are ~3/8s Brahman. An F1 Brahman/Hereford cross (50:50) is usually called an F1:Tigerstripe though too date there is no association (that I am aware of) registering them. We have had F1 Angus:Brahman cross cows (50:50) but they did not really look like a registerable Brangus and we did not call them Branguses either. A Brangus Angus cross (81.5:18.5) is usually called an Angus Plus. Is Australia using the same terminology? or is any cross of Hereford/Brahman called Braford? and any cross of Angus Brahman called Brangus?

I still don't see why quality cattle of any breed shouldn't sell well in every area.
We offered pure South Devon heifers at our local saleyards last week,well prepared and quality all the way through,yet we were offered less money than some underdone Angus and Hereford pens of the same age. Cattle buyers really rule our beef industry.

I think they prefer to feed out pens that are as uniform as possible. Here in the U.S. many non-Black breeds turned Black simply so their cattle could go in the Angus pens and look like they belong.

 

[Bez!]

East Caney

As the old saying goes, "It's the little things that make a difference" or something like that. But, whatever the saying is, the little things that most people overlook are usually the one's which spell the difference between their making a profit at the end of the year or not! This post from Bez is a practical and down to earth as any I have ever read in one concise package! My advice would be for you to print this out in BIG, BLACK LETTERS, take it to Kinko's or the like, have them seal it in sturdy plastic and keep it in whatever vehicle you use to go to buy cattle! This will save you more money than you can believe.

BEZ- here is a suggestion for you. Print up a bunch of these suggestions yourself, title them,

BEZ' BOOMER IDEAS FOR BEEF BUYERS

, have them sealed in sturdy plastic and make them available to all members of these Boards! These are money savers and time savers!

DOC HARRIS

Thanks for the kind words DOC and all others - I can write that because I have made more mistakes than any 10 of you folks who read and write here.

And I am still making them!

Oh to be able to start over knowing what I know now.

If it is possible to prevent someone from starting out the way I did well, that is truly a good thing.

Bez!

 

[Australian Cattleman]

BrandonM 2 no you can't register Brangus or Braford with one cross,though I think Charbray you might be able to. Most Brangus and Braford would be at least 1/2 content Brahman. Because not a lot is achieved up north with less Brahman.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

BrandonM 2 no you can't register Brangus or Braford with one cross,though I think Charbray you might be able to. Most Brangus and Braford would be at least 1/2 content Brahman. Because not a lot is achieved up north with less Brahman.

you can register braford for whatever precentage you want. from 3/4 brahman to 1/4 brahman depends on what works best for you and your location

 

[Brandonm2]

I looked it up and I stand corrected. An F1 Tigerstripe COULD be registered with the the American association though 5/8H:3/8B is still considered "pure Braford"....whatever that means anymore.
http://www.brafords.org/breed_up.html

 

[East Caney]

Bez, I want to start by saying thank you. I am very new to the cattle business. I currently have 10 3-7 yr old cows that I bought last year. They're all mixed breed. They all calved and all have survived. One was a bit weak. I didn't know if he would make it, and his mother doesn't give a lot of milk at all. About 5 of them are really good milkers. They were bred to either black bulls or Charolais bulls. I have 3 Charolias crossed calves and 7 black or black baldie calves. I really like the idea of sending a uniform calf crop to the sale barn each year. Also, after seeing two calves growing slower than the rest (who's moms appear to be the two worst milkers), I decided that I wanted cows that I know will yield high milk.

There was a suggestion of no bred heifers. Are 1st calf pairs acceptable? That would prove (to a degree) that she could produce a calf and allow me to see her milk production.

Also, Caustic mentioned that the baldies bring top dollar. Will solid black calves not bring the same? My preference was to use a black Simmental bull to add growth (so I can wean earlier) and hopefully milk production from any replacements kept.

One last thing, since all the sale reports I see show feedlot heifers selling at less per lb. than steers, would I be better to run the heifers I'm not keeping on a separate pasture and sell as open at 12-15 months (if I have the pasture to do so)?

I'm sure my bull and cows won't be the VERY best, but I don't plan on cheating myself. I have every intention of having a herd and herd sire that anyone would be proud to own.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Bez, I want to start by saying thank you. I am very new to the cattle business. I currently have 10 3-7 yr old cows that I bought last year. They're all mixed breed. They all calved and all have survived. One was a bit weak. I didn't know if he would make it, and his mother doesn't give a lot of milk at all. About 5 of them are really good milkers. They were bred to either black bulls or Charolais bulls. I have 3 Charolias crossed calves and 7 black or black baldie calves. I really like the idea of sending a uniform calf crop to the sale barn each year. Also, after seeing two calves growing slower than the rest (who's moms appear to be the two worst milkers), I decided that I wanted cows that I know will yield high milk.

There was a suggestion of no bred heifers. Are 1st calf pairs acceptable? That would prove (to a degree) that she could produce a calf and allow me to see her milk production.

Also, Caustic mentioned that the baldies bring top dollar. Will solid black calves not bring the same? My preference was to use a black Simmental bull to add growth (so I can wean earlier) and hopefully milk production from any replacements kept.

One last thing, since all the sale reports I see show feedlot heifers selling at less per lb. than steers, would I be better to run the heifers I'm not keeping on a separate pasture and sell as open at 12-15 months (if I have the pasture to do so)?

I'm sure my bull and cows won't be the VERY best, but I don't plan on cheating myself. I have every intention of having a herd and herd sire that anyone would be proud to own.

Don't go crazy with heavy milkers that can mean hard keepers and bag problems look for growth rate IMO.
I said my preference is a Brangus with a Hereford bull I like the cross and growth of the cross.
If I was running Braford cows I would run an Angus bulls.
In my experience Brafords have more loose screws than Brangus.
I prefer a red cow as I have a lot more options on the calf crop.
Actually the cheapest and most profitable route for you would probablly be Hereford cows with an Angus, Brangus, or Char bull.
Being your a Rookie Brangus or Brafords could be some hard expensive lessons for you as both breeds are hotter than the handle on a dutch oven. Brammer influenced cattle need an expeierenced hand to handle in my opinion.

 

[East Caney]

Thanks Caustic.

I was hoping to keep the Brahman influence in my momma cows so that they are more hardy and hopefully show greater longevity.

On average, what is the growth of a hereford as opposed to a Simmental when crossing on another english breed?

From what I've been reading, Simmentals have growth similar to that of a Charolais. I have 3 calves that are Charolais crosses, and they are the fastest growing three. The mommas all have nice bags, but they simply ran off from the rest. I have a bull calf that is pushing (if he's not passed) 400 lbs. He was born the second week of February. A baldy bull that was born a week early is just now topping 300lbs. I thought I could use a simmental to get the growth of the Charolais and the black that the market likes. Then, I could keep some replacements, since they're know to be better milkers. Don't get me wrong, I've only been reading this info. I really want to learn from everyone's experience, so I'm all ears on what you have to say.