Bought Pharo Cattle Company Angus bull

Help Support CattleToday:

Muletrack

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2017
Messages
132
Reaction score
91
Off to Dickinson, N.D., tomorrow morning to pick up a bull bought on the Colorado Pharo Cattle Co. sale. Could be interesting. But I just can't find any smaller-framed cows so I submitted a Sight Unseen bid for $4200 on a sort of 28 grass efficient, easy fleshing DNA. Almost didn't get a bull at all for that bid. If I like him I'll up it by about a thousand for next time. Well, it's 200 miles to Dickinson, so time for some zzz's. Project shrink the cows is in force.
 

sstterry

CT Supporter
CT Supporter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,877
Reaction score
904
Location
Bulls Gap, TN
Off to Dickinson, N.D., tomorrow morning to pick up a bull bought on the Colorado Pharo Cattle Co. sale. Could be interesting. But I just can't find any smaller-framed cows so I submitted a Sight Unseen bid for $4200 on a sort of 28 grass efficient, easy fleshing DNA. Almost didn't get a bull at all for that bid. If I like him I'll up it by about a thousand for next time. Well, it's 200 miles to Dickinson, so time for some zzz's. Project shrink the cows is in force.
Was it an internet auction? Good luck on the Bull!
 

shaz

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
251
Location
Middle Tn
I think shrinking the cows is a really good idea. My smaller cows (1300) hold condition well but much over that and they struggle on grass.
 

Lucky_P

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
331
Location
Western KY
Good luck; hope it works like you're wanting it to.
You might not have been able to find frame score 2s & 3s, but you could probably have come up with some 4 frame bulls, with more 'performance' and improved carcass traits at Sinclair Cattle or Green Garden Angus.

I played that 'shrink the cows' game 15 yrs ago...considered some PCC sires...glad I didn't fall that far...couple of frame score 4 bulls shrunk the cows plenty, and the pud steers they sired didnt help my bottom line any.
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
3,345
Reaction score
896
Location
Clark County, KY
Good luck; hope it works like you're wanting it to.
You might not have been able to find frame score 2s & 3s, but you could probably have come up with some 4 frame bulls, with more 'performance' and improved carcass traits at Sinclair Cattle or Green Garden Angus.

I played that 'shrink the cows' game 15 yrs ago...considered some PCC sires...glad I didn't fall that far...couple of frame score 4 bulls shrunk the cows plenty, and the pud steers they sired didnt help my bottom line any.
Here there is a dock on smaller framed calves. Seems like under a 5 frame would be too short. If not for that I wouldn’t mind running 4-5 frame cattle especially for cows. We have some good friends that have quite a few low lines and their description of the sales are words like brutal and bloodbath. I think that they did find a yards that was a little more accepting. I would definitely look at all options when marketing those calves.
 
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
18
Reaction score
2
We have several small frame EFFICIENT cows. Mostly Ohlde bred females. Run more of a terminal type bull on them and you’ll be fine. Whether you get docked for smaller frame or not the savings far out way the dock on the offspring. We seldom see an issue when selling here in Missouri. Good luck
 

76 Bar

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
214
Location
South Western Oregon
For those who are complaining about getting docked for small frame score calves...what were their measured frame scores & were they quality cattle?
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
3,345
Reaction score
896
Location
Clark County, KY
@76 Bar as far as our calves no they were not measured for frame score, being commercial calves. The quality on ours I feel should be good as their heifer mates consistently sold as bred heifers in the upper percentiles of the sale. Our calves have usually been from heifer bulls so that could account for the smaller size at weaning. By the next year the heifer mates are typically well grown and have enough frame to meet the graders approval. Every once in a while there would be one that doesn’t. Our calves have been from AI and sons of those AI bulls with mature heights of 56 inches or more. When we weaned off our calves that time in question they were in good shape and I knew the markets would view them as short and too fat even after being weaned. The markets here want feeder cattle (stocker cattle) that don’t have a lot of flesh and that have plenty of frame to put weight onto.
 

daneg

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Location
Manitoba
Small frame cows won’t hurt your bottom line, I find that you need adequate body depth and thickness to have them thrive in colder climates and have gut capacity to graze lush watery grasses. My mature cows range from 1200 to 1350lbs not extremely small but plenty large enough to raise calves of a size that the market readily accepts.
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
3,345
Reaction score
896
Location
Clark County, KY
Fool's gold until they come in the ring. Then a $150+ dock. Live and learn - the hard way.
This is the problem with a lot of the specialty marketing. The sellers make money on it and unless the customers have a niche market available to them it’s just too bad. Feeder calf buyers want growth potential in the calves for the stocker phase, then the feedlots want continued growth and gain potential. It’s a hard balancing act. We don’t need cowherds that average 1800-2000+ but we do need a breeding strategy and direction to achieve a good medium between a cost effective maternal oriented cowherd and calves that are well received at the market by the buyers which isn’t an easy feat with all of the different directions being promoted.
 

Rydero

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
619
Location
Manitoba, Canada
This is the problem with a lot of the specialty marketing. The sellers make money on it and unless the customers have a niche market available to them it’s just too bad. Feeder calf buyers want growth potential in the calves for the stocker phase, then the feedlots want continued growth and gain potential. It’s a hard balancing act. We don’t need cowherds that average 1800-2000+ but we do need a breeding strategy and direction to achieve a good medium between a cost effective maternal oriented cowherd and calves that are well received at the market by the buyers which isn’t an easy feat with all of the different directions being promoted.
There can be lots of money in breeding stock without an end market for the product created. Whenever I hear a sales pitch for something new I don't dismiss it instantly I ask about the non breeding stock market for the offspring. Alpacas, Ostriches, Emus come to mind.. Around here we had the Pigeon King. He sold fricken pigeons to people, it was outright fraud there was no market beyond selling him pigeons to sell to other people.

This is why whenever this small cow, grassfed topic comes up and inevitably when the argument comes up about selling more smaller calves for more $ per lb (and less $/HD) I ask where the money to buy more cows comes from. Probably works great if you can market all that meat because you live by a city w millions of hipsters but that isn't the mainstream cattle industry.
 
Top