Bottle feeding HELP

[Double R Ranch]

Take the water bucket away. Unless he is in the hot sun, he will not dehydrate in 8 hrs or so, at 3-4 weeks, unless he has a serious case of scours.
Put the milk in a bucket... he might not like the bottle/nipple... That is just for suggestions to see if he will go back on milk.
Antibiotic shots will not do much good... he needs something for possible coccidiosis... that age is very typical of when they seem to come down with it... scours sometimes, erratic appetite...
Give him a syringe (without a needle) of 2-3 cc, STRAIGHT from the bottle of CORID, in his mouth as far back in his throat as you can, so it will get swallowed... Once a day for 5 days... NOT DILUTED... my old vet told me it will do more good that way than trying to get the diluted amount in them.... Usually, IF coccidiosis is the problem, he will start wanting to eat more in 24-48 hours or so.
This might not be coccidiosis... but the age frame is right and the "symptoms" are typical... plus it will not "damage him" if it is not coccidiosis...

B vitamin complex shot, to help stimulate the appetite.... try some probiotic paste given at the opposite time of the corid...to get the gut tract working better....

This is very helpful. With the jerseys we seem to struggle with coccidiosis quite a bit. NOT diluting the corid would be far less of a battle with them. Going to try this next time. Hopefully we are done with that for the season. Thanks @farmerjan!

 

[St3]

How much are you trying to feed him? What kind of milk are you using?
Glad it looks like you are turning him around.

The goal is 2 full bottles a day. 2 liters I think? It's so frustrating. Tonight we didn't want hardly any. So he downed maybe a full bottle today.
Do I still hold the water bucket outta there?
Again - so frustrating. I've never seen one like this just hanging around in limbo without getting worse or all the way back to good.

He is on the mend though I guess.

 

[MurraysMutts]

The goal is 2 full bottles a day. 2 liters I think? It's so frustrating. Tonight we didn't want hardly any. So he downed maybe a full bottle today.
Do I still hold the water bucket outta there?
Again - so frustrating. I've never seen one like this just hanging around in limbo without getting worse or all the way back to good.

He is on the mend though I guess.

Does he have something stuck in his mouth or tongue?
Temperature? (His Temperature)
Does he play like normal?
Does he look full like he needs to take a poop or hollow and empty?

O! And check his dang navel!!

 

[Double R Ranch]

The goal is 2 full bottles a day. 2 liters I think? It's so frustrating. Tonight we didn't want hardly any. So he downed maybe a full bottle today.
Do I still hold the water bucket outta there?
Again - so frustrating. I've never seen one like this just hanging around in limbo without getting worse or all the way back to good.

He is on the mend though I guess.

What kind of milk? Whole milk or soy based?
What kind of calf? Beef? Dairy? Breed if dairy? That could be way too much milk for him depending on what he is.
Definitely I would continue holding out free choice water for a bit. I've had plenty of bottle calves that would drink water till they got sick instead of the bottle.

 

[Double R Ranch]

@MurraysMutts @farmerjan are the king and queen of bottle calves. You're in good hands @St3!

 

[St3]

Does he have something stuck in his mouth or tongue?
Temperature? (His Temperature)
Does he play like normal?
Does he look full like he needs to take a poop or hollow and empty?

O! And check his dang navel!!

Nothing stuck
Not sure on temp, nose is a little stuffy
Doesn't skip and jump ever… looks sad but stands, ears are up and will even moo a little.
Hell no he doesn't look full….lol no bottle calves ever do to me. Like I said, we have about 45-50 cow calf pairs and those calves look night and day better. So idk if he looks full to be honest.

What do I check with naval?

 

[St3]

What kind of milk? Whole milk or soy based?
What kind of calf? Beef? Dairy? Breed if dairy? That could be way too much milk for him depending on what he is.
Definitely I would continue holding out free choice water for a bit. I've had plenty of bottle calves that would drink water till they got sick instead of the bottle.

It's dumor milk I think. Medicated.
I'm told he's a charolias cross…. So light brown and white.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Good call on the soy based milk! @Double R Ranch

@St3 it'll say on the bag. Soy protein or all milk protein or a blend. Like 20%/20% I'm familiar with the dumor brand and I don't hardly use the medicated. U do realize the medicated has a coccidiostat in it right!?!

I suspect your milk replacer is NOT all milk protein. It's probably a blend or soy based. I won't use it ever!! It's only a couple bucks more for good quality all milk protein based replacer. There's a whole speel in my bottle calf thread but it would be a bit of a read.

Feel his naval for hotness or soreness. Look at it to see if there is any puss indicating an infection. And definitely check his temperature.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Good call on the soy based milk! @Double R Ranch

@St3 it'll say on the bag. Soy protein or all milk protein or a blend. Like 20%/20% I'm familiar with the dumor brand and I don't hardly use the medicated. U do realize the medicated has a coccidiostat in it right!?!

I suspect your milk replacer is NOT all milk protein. It's probably a blend or soy based. I won't use it ever!! It's only a couple bucks more for good quality all milk protein based replacer. There's a whole speel in my bottle calf thread but it would be a bit of a read.

Feel his naval for hotness or soreness. Look at it to see if there is any puss indicating an infection. And definitely check his temperature.

Milk replacer ingredients and over feeding seems to be the most common issues with bottle feeding. So it's usually the first questions I ask. We never use anything but real milk replacers and stopped having many the majority of our scour problems. Also stopped having white muscle disease in calves. Thankful for our milk cows now but still there are many who don't know that over feeding calves and the quality of the replacer can make or break a bottle calf.
@St3 you don't want the calf full and turning away from the bottle when he's finished. Be sure he's still begging for more. I don't have beef calves on that much milk a day for a while. Especially when transitioning from another property/milk/cow. At a few weeks old they are usually on 3 feedings a day still and somewhere between 1/4 to a 1/2 a bottle per feeding till they are going really well. I don't leave free choice water out till they are going well either or they tend to over drink and get sick.

 

[farmerjan]

@Double R Ranch is right .... I have offered free access to water from the start and have had MOST calves just do fine. A few will drink water til they are sick.... so mostly I watch and see... if some do not want a bottle, the first thing I do is take away the water.
If no signs of "naval ill" like @MurraysMutts is suggesting, then you go the next step.
Yes... the Quality of the milk replacer is paramount. I also do NOT feed medicated milk replacer... it can suppress but not actually "treat" problems and they become chronic.
The milk replacer HAS TO BE ONLY MILK BASED.... soy can be a death sentence to most calves early on. I also feed the 20/20 which is fat and protein... and it has to be derived from milk/milk whey based.....
Agree, calves should be wanting more when being fed bottles...

The quantity varies with different breeds and such. I do not feed a whole 2 qt bottle to a jersey baby calf at a feeding... too much for the milk stomach to hold and process all at once. Big holstein bull calves can take it. Now it is popular for many dairies to give calves 3 qt bottles at a feeding... maybe after a couple weeks, but to me it is just too much of a GLUT of milk in their stomachs.
Think about kids, they will eat candy or sweet snacks til they are finally full... but then get sick later... Bottle calves are not going to stop drinking until they are full to the brim, but then pay for it later... a calf on a cow gets all it wants FROM DAY 1... they drink til they are full... and go back later and get a little more... A beef cow NORMALLY will only produce and let down 1-2 qts in the beginning so the calf will not get too much in most cases. As they butt that udder, the milk let down is more, and the demand of nursing stimulates the mammary glands to produce more... Their intake increases as the amount produced is increased... but they are getting this increase over 4-6-8 feedings a day at only 1-2 qts at a time that they are accustomed to. The amount of "milkiness" in beef cattle varies, with some lines making much more milk than others... but the general idea is they will produce and let down what the calf can drink and hold at a time and they will go back for more when they get hungry and get a little more then.

You need to get at least a week in before you can be sure that the calf's problems with not wanting to eat are nutritional/coccidia based. If it were my calf... and this is ONLY from your descriptions, I am NOT a vet.... I would feed 1/2 bottle 3 times a day and give the corid for scours.... I would NOT have water in front of him... If he is not playing and wanting to run around some, there are some other things at work and without having any eyes on, I have no other suggestions except a vet visit... I am thinking the calf has something else going on if it doesn't seem to resolve its self. If it is a rota virus or a corona virus, I do not think corid will do it any good. That requires an antibiotic and probably several shots in a series... and both of them are real b#@ches to deal with...

You might want to try taking him off milk completely for 2 days, feeding only electrolyte solution... get his system "emptied out" and then go back to adding milk for 1 or 2 feedings... for the nutrition...

I don't know without seeing him first hand. But I am in total agreement with @Double R Ranch ..... half the problems with baby calves is the kind of milk replacer and OVERFEEDING in the beginning.

 

[MurraysMutts]

I love it when Jan talks.....

 

[Warren Allison]

I love it when Jan talks.....

She knows her stuff about this topic for sure. And so do you!

 

[St3]

Thanks to all!!!
This message board is amazing.

He drank 2/3 of a bottle this morning!

Yeah - to y'all's point about the water…. We have another bottle calf heifer that does fine with water. She gets a bucket in her pen, but she doesnt drink a lot of it…. drains the bottle every time.

I'll finish out this bag of milk and switch to something unmedicated.

 

[farmerjan]

If you are going to have to get another bag of milk replacer, and the other calf is doing okay.... get the new bag and feed it to the calf with the "problems" and feed the other to the other calf... (yeah, pita for a little while) and remember to start adding the new to the other calf's milk a couple of times so the transition is gradual. Sudden changes to their milk can sometimes throw them for a loop... like you eating steak every day and then suddenly switching to beans and hot dogs... your stomach is going to make a very fast adjustment and trips to the bathroom will be more frequent for a bit....
I would also keep this calf on 2/3 bottle for several feedings... get it to "wanting more" so it is getting back to feeling right.

 

[farmerjan]

Thanks @Warren Allison and @MurraysMutts .... it's just alot of hard knocks learning over the years with calves... and probably things I have forgotten to mention. I happen to like the old timers thing with adding a beaten raw egg for some scours/loose manure....

 

[St3]

Update
Little guy is making strides.

Now the other one is scouring. Straight yellow water.
She took most of her bottle tonight, has free choice water. But not her normal energetic self. Looked like a yellow fire hose.

Also - I've been adding a table spoon of apple cider vinegar to their bottles this whole time. In the past, I've seen it work wonders. Probably gonna quit with that now.

My kids are both saying - "we don't ever want bottle calves again!" So maybe that's the win in all this. lol

 

[Hpacres440p]

Update
Little guy is making strides.

Now the other one is scouring. Straight yellow water.
She took most of her bottle tonight, has free choice water. But not her normal energetic self. Looked like a yellow fire hose.

Also - I've been adding a table spoon of apple cider vinegar to their bottles this whole time. In the past, I've seen it work wonders. Probably gonna quit with that now.

My kids are both saying - "we don't ever want bottle calves again!" So maybe that's the win in all this. lol

Is the other one on the "bad" replacer?

 

[Warren Allison]

Thanks @Warren Allison and @MurraysMutts .... it's just alot of hard knocks learning over the years with calves... and probably things I have forgotten to mention. I happen to like the old timers thing with adding a beaten raw egg for some scours/loose manure....

Well, this year for the first time in my life, we fooled with nurse cows...and not just 1.,,but 5! Everything worked out very well...not much problem at all.. and this is because of what I learned from YOU!. And @MurraysMutts , too! Just weaned Gail's 4th one, The Milking short horn raised 4, the Guers- Herf raised 2, and dunno how many the gal has raised with the 2 Jersery crosses, ( she milks them and feeds calves on a bottle). I had some bottle calves when I was little, but we put the milk replacer in a metal bucket that had a nipple on one side, and a bracket to hang it on the fence on the other side, but that was 60 years ago! I know a little about horses--had them for 64 years now. And I know a little about Bermuda hay,.,.been doing that since 1973. Raised Corrientes from about 1982 for roping, and then Corr-Angus crosses since the mid- 90's. Bought and sold ( and still do some) beef cattle since about 1975. Have grafted 2 orphan foals on a mare. But I was...and am.. as dumb as a box of rocks about raising calves on nurse cows. We would have NEVER been able to do it this past year, without probably losing most of those calves and hurting those cows (like mastitis, etc) if not for you, Jan, and Murray. Thank you both.

 

[farmerjan]

Update
Little guy is making strides.

Now the other one is scouring. Straight yellow water.
She took most of her bottle tonight, has free choice water. But not her normal energetic self. Looked like a yellow fire hose.

Also - I've been adding a table spoon of apple cider vinegar to their bottles this whole time. In the past, I've seen it work wonders. Probably gonna quit with that now.

My kids are both saying - "we don't ever want bottle calves again!" So maybe that's the win in all this. lol

I have used ACV as a tonic added... once or twice... BUT.... cattle can get acidosis easily and dairy cattle ratiuons often have added bicarb to help with that. I think ACV in the bottle will also cause souring... you use vinegar to "make buttermilk".... like a tsp at a time to a cup or 2 ? So I think you are making their gut tract that is immature, way to acidic.

 

[wobbie1775]

I have used ACV as a tonic added... once or twice... BUT.... cattle can get acidosis easily and dairy cattle ratiuons often have added bicarb to help with that. I think ACV in the bottle will also cause souring... you use vinegar to "make buttermilk".... like a tsp at a time to a cup or 2 ? So I think you are making their gut tract that is immature, way to acidic.

I think the ACV thing, in general, is a mostly snake oil. I don't just mean in this use case. It just seems like it is presented as this miracle cure all thing...and I am not convinced.