Border Coll. OR Aus. SHep

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allenfarms

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Which breed will make the best Work first/ family second Dog.

How quick to learn cattle and orders are they.

How easy to train?

Male or Female?

Thanks
 
I can only speak of the family side of the equation, as we've never had them to work... but i would go with the Australian Shephard. They are both great dogs, but i think the Aussies tend to be less hyper than the border collies. I've had both and would gladly have another of either if i was in the market for another dog.
 
Not just because I have them and raise them, but I would go with a Border Collie. You're going to have a better chance finding a working Border Collie than an Aussie. There are some good Aussies out there, but they are hard to find as all the AKC breeders have bred all the work out of them.

Ease of training is going to depend on you. Lots of patience is key and putting the dog in the right scenario to learn what you want it to do.

Male or female doesn't matter much to me. I have had both that work real good and both that weren't worth a darn. Try to find a breeder in your area and visit with them a bit on each breed.

Good Luck
 
Outside of Catahoulas I tend to lean on the Aussie x Queensland cross dogs. You loose some to the excess hair of the Aussie and the aggressiveness of the queensland. There's enough dogs bred that ways down here they are dern near their own breed. Plenty cowey and still safe for the baby to crawl all over. And they're kind of like Catahoulas about being territorial. If you start hauling one of them in the back of your truck when it's about six months old by the time it's 18 mo/2 yrs. old a stranger doesn't want to reach inside the bed. I've had males and females and kind of like the females better.Z
 
if you want work first, a collie would better suit... we have aussies but not to work cattle... aussies tend to be less excited and hyper, but i think collies would be better workers... so i really don't know... what ever you think, they both have ups and down.
ss
 
ya i'm not familiar with the cross or the cathoulas. Most common here is border collies healers and aussie sheps.
I just wanna good hard workin farm dog that I'll ride the truck and like you said "be fine with a baby in the floor or whatever.
you know how kids are , "pull on ears or whatever they can grab."
 
allenfarms":1zyqn3f8 said:
Which breed will make the best Work first/ family second Dog.

How quick to learn cattle and orders are they.

How easy to train?

Male or Female?

Thanks

I have a border collie going on 15 yrs. old. She is a good cattle dog and had the potential to be excellent. Shortcomings she has were caused by me. She is the best animal friend I have ever had (possibly including human). We are inseparable. If I get another dog it will be a female border collie. She is plenty aggressive to handle cattle. Important to me since I don't owe sheep and ducks. :)
 
Based on past experience, aussies aren;t tough enough for cattle, heelers are too rough for calves and borders are too hyper for my taste. That said, we've had good and bad in all 3. But we haven;t had a dog to work cattle in 10-15 years. Our Corgi trys but the cows just ignore her.

dun
 
It is my experience that they are both good. I have an aussie that has a litter of pups ready to go right now, but that might not be my first choice. I think the border collie aussie mix is the best. The whole key to it is find working dogs not show dogs. Most people that have working dogs has one. I will not take a dog out unless I have 2 they will watch out for eachother and move anything better. One will hit the head the other the heals and spin a cow to the ground if shes rank. I can almost load the trailer with no panels in the field with 2 dogs and dog broke cows. The cows head strait for the pen as soon as they hear the dogs bark and the 4 wheeler fire up. They know it is easier to just go were the are suppose to. The cows being dog broke is something that most people forget about when trying to work cattle. They will square up and try to take a dog if they don't know what they are. So Thats my thoughts on it. They are a good tool but there are a lot of things to factor in when making that first purchase. Do you want gathering or driving dogs. border collie gathering, aussie driving. Make sure the parents work, That is the biggest part to stress. One check is when they are pups tie a string to a pop can and drag it behind you, The ones that will attack it and keep going after it for a period of time will be the better workers. See how timmid or bold they are. More passive dogs will give up and quit on you if they get kicked or tired. Then finally have it in the back of you mind it might take a couple of years for the cows and dogs to get trained, that until the cows are trained to keep a young pup away and not put them in a bad situation or they will quit working all together. But if done right it will be one of the best investments you ever made.
 
I think I will prob. end up with a border collie, I really appriciate the insight on how to tell pups that will work and timidness. I have heard of alot of dogs that when diciplined they will just squat and piss. Or like you said get kicked or scared. SO the pop can thing will test work ability, is there really a way to know if they will be timid or not,

Also do you know a way to find "working breeders" not pets or show dogs.
 
allenfarms":b884kevw said:
ya i'm not familiar with the cross or the cathoulas. Most common here is border collies healers and aussie sheps.
I just wanna good hard workin farm dog that I'll ride the truck and like you said "be fine with a baby in the floor or whatever.
you know how kids are , "pull on ears or whatever they can grab."

Catahoulas are the official state dog of Louisiana. Here's a little bit on them and their history. I'll try to find some working pics.Z

http://www.crackercatahoulas.com/index.html
 
I've always had queensland heelers for cattle and just love them - some are better with kids than others - and alot depends on if they are raised around kids or not. That being said, a good friend talked me into one of his border collie pups (it wasn't that hard!) last spring, so she's 9mo old now and she's plenty aggressive with the cows, and really "listens" to the old heeler. She's got her basic commands down pat already. The big difference is she wants to gather them into a tight "flock" and hold them rather than drive them where I want them to go - but she's catching on and I'm sure we'll get past this, as I said she's just a pup but boy is she intense! No sense of humor when she's out in the field - just that head down beady eyed stare! In my opinion now that I've had both - border collie is far and away a quicker learner as a pup, but only time will tell. My kids are grown and no grandkids yet so I don't know how she'd be with little ones but she's pretty exciteable - I'm sure she'd be fine if they were old enough to toss a tennis ball!
 
We have a border collie and a blue heeler, both are good, but, the best that we have is a couple of pups from the cross of the border collie/blue heeler. Also, imo, the females seem to do a better job for us.

mom
 
The best way is to spend some time with the pups as a group. This isn't a quick decision. watch them play and see how they act with you being a stranger. If they are running around wrestling with the other pups and quick to come up to you they are the more out going pups. Try to stay away from the ones that go of to a corner quite a bit or hid under the chair and are not to sure about you petting them. There will be ones that will work but are more timid. They will chase you for a while then go hide or not get in the mix with the pups fighting and playing. It might seem like you won't know what your looking for but when you go look at the pups you will know. As far as how to know what pups to look for, look through the paper. There will be ranch raised and working parents in the ad. Ask to look at the parents or one if thats all thats possible. Ask lots of questions. See how they are worked and on what type of livestock. I went to a breeder once that said they worked. As I started asking. I found out that they had them working lunge lines and what not for time trials. The parents had never seen livestock. So I would look for ranch/farm raised or they sound like they have gone and worked livestock with them buy the stories they tell.
 
visit www.
http://www.Kensmuir.com


There is a forum listing on his website
Plenty of andvice and info on breeders and dogs available .

Make sure to go to the extra effort of getting a working bred dog-- of whatever breed you go with.Pet breeders have ruined the reliability of proper instincts in most working breeds.

Border Collies do tend to take more time and effort to live with and get going- but if you want a dog to be very involved with(both social and work) -the end result is worth it if you make it that far.
 
KenB":i3u426q4 said:
MillIronQH":i3u426q4 said:
I couldn't resist this link especially the first pic in the third row.Z

http://www.geocities.com/monaghancataho ... _home.html

That looks like a pit bull.

Not in this lifetime... Pure Louisiana Catahoula. There is no.. repeat no pit in them.Z

Lacy-703.jpg


HawkBeau-BayPen.jpg
 
We have a border collie/blue heeler mix male that I run in agility trials. Comes from working lines. I agree that mix is the best, but I can't speak to herding. We're looking for a female puppy to breed - has to be equally as intelligent and agile as our boy. I saw that you had puppies and thought I would inquire. Anyone else out there with pups, please reply too. Thanks!
 
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