bloody scours?

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gcreekrch

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regolith":23yinflr said:
I don't think many of Nesi's organic calves end up in feedlots.

I would prefer Nesikep answer this question but I have one for you now.

How familiar are you with the North American cattle industry?

Most order buyers are filling orders for commercial feedlots for potloads of feeder cattle. Here a load is about 63,000 lbs. A smaller operator such as Nesikep will take 20 calves to the sale. They are not all the same sex or weight so they will be sorted. I have seen 20 calves from 1 contributor sold in 20 lots.

These calves will be bought and penned with other contributors cattle of like quality, sex and weight. Very little attention is paid to who the owner is or how the cattle were raised unless it is a complete potload of reputation cattle. When they arrive at their destination they are all processed, fed and treated for any illness exactly the same.

Unless Nesikep is actually marketing his cattle to another organic producer or directly to consumers there is no point in the extra hassle and cost of staying organic other than being able to claim the title.
 

regolith

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gcreekrch":2c3os36q said:
regolith":2c3os36q said:
I don't think many of Nesi's organic calves end up in feedlots.

I would prefer Nesikep answer this question but I have one for you now.

How familiar are you with the North American cattle industry?

Most order buyers are filling orders for commercial feedlots for potloads of feeder cattle. Here a load is about 63,000 lbs. A smaller operator such as Nesikep will take 20 calves to the sale. They are not all the same sex or weight so they will be sorted. I have seen 20 calves from 1 contributor sold in 20 lots.

These calves will be bought and penned with other contributors cattle of like quality, sex and weight. Very little attention is paid to who the owner is or how the cattle were raised unless it is a complete potload of reputation cattle. When they arrive at their destination they are all processed, fed and treated for any illness exactly the same.

Unless Nesikep is actually marketing his cattle to another organic producer or directly to consumers there is no point in the extra hassle and cost of staying organic other than being able to claim the title.

Don't know a thing about North American cattle. Apart from I think they got four legs like the New Zealand and Scottish ones.
Nesikep has posted before about how he markets his calves. I'm not going to rely on my memory to say more than I dd above.

If I sent weaners to the saleyards they would be mixed with like stock just that way. I entirely agree with your last paragraph, even the guy who inspected this farm for its certification said to me there was no point in it as there was no organic market for either the livestock or milk produced off the farm. As the owner of the farm, the ex-owner had every right to insist that it be farmed according to his ideals when he leased it out. Common sense need not apply.
I've got ten weaner bulls and three weaner heifers and two yearling bulls for sale right now. If I send them to the saleyard this week I can guarantee they'll be drafted to nine different pens and no buyer will even know they came off an organic farm.
 

gcreekrch

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Exactly, and Nesi posted a video or two a while back of his calves selling through the ring in Kamloops BC. I didn't hear the auctioneer even mention that they were organically raised.

I'm not trying to create a fight here, just would like an explanation to satisfy my curiosity.

Getting back to the original post on this thread, procrastination in disease control can be costly. ;-)
 

Nesikep

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Well, we farm organically because it's our ideal, not because it pays better... I sell a couple calves or so organically, keep my own replacement heifers, and the rest go to the sale barn... We never mention on the paperwork that they're organic, or someone will just go buy them there for a penny more, get organic cattle and not pay what they're worth, so if they aren't going to pay what they're worth, we're not going to call them organic for someone elses benefit.. We also have stopped getting certified, it was just not worth the fees.. though we haven't changed our management.

Back to coccidiosis...
I found that sulfa drugs didn't make a difference in the recovery time of the animals, and that calves from old cows will get it nearly as often as from heifers. this young bull calf is the first one to get it older than 8 weeks (he was 4 months)... He hadn't suffered any stress that I'm aware of, his mother is a good milker, and the weather was cool for a long time, which should stifle bacteria on the ground. I have also found that with whatever strain of cocci I have around here, the calves do get a bit weak, and stop eating hay, but never stop nursing and never have gotten so weak as to be worrysome.
My heard has always been low on copper, and I'm feeding more of it now. Cu plays an important role in the immune system, so that could be a factor, but what I'm often seeing is the calves eating dirt and dried up cowpies, and it's just a bit hard to stop them. To date, I think I've had 6 calves who've had bloody scours that look like cocci to me... the last 2 years I've had 2 or 3 each year, plus this young bull... I'll have to see how his weight gains are now, he was really feeling down for a week, but he's got a good appetite again.. Now my problem is I can't feed his as much as he can eat since if I do that, the cows are going to get fussy and start laying down in the hay instead of eating it... he's in a small group though and they get fed a higher quality hay.. 2nd cut, mostly alfalfa, and nice stuff at that.
 

Fire Sweep Ranch

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We just dealt with our first case. Bright red loose stools on a 30 day old calf. No stress, but the cows are in confinement right now because no grass, and we are unrolling hay daily. I am not sure why we got it now,never having seen it before, but I did take two stool samples to the vet (another calf stared scouring) and the calf with bloody stool had a severe case with the other having a mild case. We treated with sulfa, and the vet wanted the calves drenched with corrid daily for 5 days. We got one day down them before they became skittish and difficult to get near, so no more. I am watching them closely.
The timing of this thread was great for me, since the stools started on a Sunday I went ahead and treated with sustain as advised here.
Thanks!
 

gcreekrch

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Since we started mixing Bovatec in our custom mix mineral 7 years ago we haven't treated a case of cocci in any age animal.
 

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