BLACK SIMMENTAL BULL

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Burns Bull X993U 1259344 Black Homo Polled PB Simmental


Born: March 11, 1988
Weight: 2450 lbs. Frame Score: 6.8
Scrotal: N/A
Hip Height: 61"
Owners: Eblen and Sons Simmentals


X339U is a well established sire and his numbers still prove it. He is in the top 1/3 of the Simmental breed for Calving Ease and Maternal Calving Ease. Birth Weight EPD is in the top 40% and Weaning weight, Yearling Weight, and Maternal Weaning Weight are all in the top half of the breed too. Carcass Data EPDs have X339U in the top 3% for % Retail Cuts and the top half for Carcass Weight. More important that X339U's numbers if the excellent phenotype of the cattle he sires. Moderate framed, structurally correct, thickly made females, steers, and bulls that come easily, keep easily, and feed efficiently are hallmarks of X339U calves. It takes an exceptional bull to became popular as a sire in any breed; it takes a very exceptional bull to remain a breed standard for years. X339U is rightly such a bull, and for all the right reasons.


BIRTH
WEIGHT 205 DAY ADJ
WEIGHT 365 DAY ADJ
WEIGHT
104 753 1272



Fall 1999 CE BW WW YW MCE MM MWW
EPD 5.8 3.7 46.6 57.6 4.6 7.9 31.1
ACC 0.91 0.96 0.95 0.95 0.91 0.94 0.94


Black Max

Performer
Miss Nick 175-L
Burnes Cow U339

Buck
Burns Cow R339




I ASKED FOR ADVICE ABOUT A BLACK (HOMOZ..)SIMMENTAL BULL EARLIER.. SOME ONE SUGGESTED A BULL WITH A CE OF 7.5 OR HIGHER.
THE ABOVE IS A BULL THAT I'M USING AS A EXAMPLE..
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND BW , WW, & YW ARE AVERAGES OF OTHER SIMILAR BULLS. MM & MWW ARE THE BIRTH WEIGHT , AND WEANING WEIGHT OF THE MOTHER OF THE BULL THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT??
CE DOES THAT STAND FOR CALVING EASE?? AND IS THAT ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN ?? TEN BEING BEST???

I HAVE TRIED LOOKING BACK IN SOME OF THE OLDER POST FOR THIS INFO. I COULD NOT FIND THE INFO ABOUT ( CE) I DID LOK AT THE POST BY DUN ABOUT EPD'S THAT HELPED A LOT !1 I WILL PROBABLY PRINT THAT ONE.

THANKS BILL....
 

dun

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MULDOONBILL":1t2y2r5p said:
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND BW , WW, & YW ARE AVERAGES OF OTHER SIMILAR BULLS. MM & MWW ARE THE BIRTH WEIGHT , AND WEANING WEIGHT OF THE MOTHER OF THE BULL THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT??
CE DOES THAT STAND FOR CALVING EASE?? AND IS THAT ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN ?? TEN BEING BEST???

THANKS BILL....

The Simmenthal breed averages for spring 2004 are as follows:CE:+5.6,
BW: +2.6, WW: +33.9, YW: +56.6, MCE:+2.3, Milk: +22.7

CE is how easy this bulls calves are born, BW is this bulls calves BW, WW and YW are this bulls calves WW & YW, MCE is how easy this bulls daughters have their calves, MWW is this bulls daughters calves WW based on their milk and genetic influence

These are not absolute numbers, the are only expected differences when compared to other Simmenthal bulls.

Not sure if this helps or not or just muddies the waters.

Any accuracy (acc.) in the 90s is about as reliable as you can get. Mid 80's and above is considered (in most breeds) to be high accuracy.

dun
 
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Anonymous

I'M PRETTY SURE IV'E GOT THE WEIGHTS FIGURED OUT..
NOW THE CE.. 5.4 COMPARED TO WHAT???
IS THIS A SCALE OF OEN ( BEING BAD) TO TEN ( BEING GREAT) ???
I AM ASSUMING THAT HIGHER IS BETTER , SINCE I WAS ADVISED OF A 7.5 OR MORE.
IF SO.. THE AVERAGE IS 5.4 .. ISN'T 7.5 KIND OF HIGH??
BILL
 

dun

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MULDOON BILL":39eatirx said:
I'M PRETTY SURE IV'E GOT THE WEIGHTS FIGURED OUT..
NOW THE CE.. 5.4 COMPARED TO WHAT???
IS THIS A SCALE OF OEN ( BEING BAD) TO TEN ( BEING GREAT) ???
I AM ASSUMING THAT HIGHER IS BETTER , SINCE I WAS ADVISED OF A 7.5 OR MORE.
IF SO.. THE AVERAGE IS 5.4 .. ISN'T 7.5 KIND OF HIGH??
BILL

The 5.4 is compared to the breed average or other Simmenthal bulls.

http://herdbook.simmental.org:8080/Genetic_Evaluation_Statistics/Active_Simmental_Sires.html
gives you the percentiles for each trait.
This is only for active Simmenthal sires. EPD percentiles can vary over the breed. Cows are different then bulls, etc. The average is for all Simmenthals, not just one gender.

For active bulls 7.5 would only be in the upper 40 percentile. That's better then a lower number, but not as good as say, 10.0.

dun
 

Oldtimer

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Personal opinion- I wouldn't use that bull except for on mature cows -- I wouldn't use a Simmental bull on heifers unless the CE- was +10 or greater and the birthweight was - 1 or more, But thats my preference because I'd rather have live calves than dead ones.

For mature cows the EPD's look real good- although in this part of the country when its 20 below zero I'd rather have one of those little angus calves that jump up with a will to live, than a continental that lays there and dies. I've used both and even some composite crossbreds, but nothing has the vigor to stay alive like an angus-- # 2 herefords.
 

SimmAngus

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I was the one that suggested a 7.5CE or higher. On my heifers I wont use less than a 9 and prefer a 10+. On the average a 7.5 will bring a narrow head and fairly sloped shoulder, which translates into easier calving. As Dun suggests I would not put a 5 or 6 on a heifer only a mature cow, and it should be moderate frame plus. Remember if your crossing Angus with Simmis the Angus in general are smaller framed. If I could suggest a bull for you to try it would be "Nichols Shannigan F5". I've used him...his Sire and now own one of his sons, and all are no sleep lost calving ease. They lack some of the higher retail cut/REA EPD values but if you're trying to build a herd of females they are a very easy and painless step through the door. When you have a good set of F1 cows then bring in a bull like "Lucky Strike" and watch the REA/%RC EPD's rocket. Remember to keep the Angus lines running in your herd to maintain the higher %IMF.

John
 

MULDOON

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Oldtimer, thank you for the advice, I wasn't really planning on that particuler bull. I had pasted the epd information off of a web site, and was asking questions on how to read the EPD data.

What I am having problams with is CE , I uderstand that it means calving ease.,I understand that the scale is low as in one being bad// and high being good as in ten.
but how are they coming up with this data????
Is it based on mortality rate?? Time that the cow was in labor??


The bull that I have (Simmental) bred 3 cows & 3 heifers,
all calves were born healthy.

Now I'm getting a liitle confused about calling a Simmental bull a Continental. I thought that they were from switzerland, would that be called a European breed?
I'm kind of new to the business.
 

dun

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MULDOON":1pxm74ha said:
Oldtimer, thank you for the advice, I wasn't really planning on that particuler bull. I had pasted the epd information off of a web site, and was asking questions on how to read the EPD data.

What I am having problams with is CE , I uderstand that it means calving ease.,I understand that the scale is low as in one being bad// and high being good as in ten.
but how are they coming up with this data????
Is it based on mortality rate?? Time that the cow was in labor??


The bull that I have (Simmental) bred 3 cows & 3 heifers,
all calves were born healthy.

Now I'm getting a liitle confused about calling a Simmental bull a Continental. I thought that they were from switzerland, would that be called a European breed?
I'm kind of new to the business.

Usually calving ease is based on the number of the different classes of birthing. 1 = No assistance, 2 = easy pull, 3 = hard pull, 4 = ceaerian,
5 = abnormal birth. The calculated CE uses some mathematical formula which comes up with a number, based on number of births and number of each type of birth. Probably the only people that really know how exactly it's calculated are the folks that came up with the formula. The point is that you don't need to know how it's derived, just how to utilize the results.
The Simmenthal bull we used this year has a CE of +11.0, we're only using him on mature cows, but they are small framed cows.

Cattle are roughly considered to be of the origins. Bos Indicus are the Brahman types, Zebu, Gyr, Nelore, etc.
British breeds, Shorthorn, Angus, Herefords etc. Those that aren't british or Bos Indicus are considered continental, i.e. from the european continent. Simmenthal, limousin, charolais, Gelbvieh, etc.
American breeds are those that were devloped in the US, typically a composite that has some Bos Indicus content, i.e., Santa Gertrudis, Brangus. But any combination of breeds that have bred bred back to the same cross and have become a stable breeding population can be considered an American breed ush as half Angus - half Gelbvieh bred back to half angus - half Gelbvieh long enough to create a repeatedable breeding composite.
Sorry I'm not very good as explaining this stuff

dun
 

dun

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MULDOON":2x9m0sd9 said:
Thanks Dun,
Your right I don't need to know how the formula works,
And thanks for the lesson on cattle origins.
I'm getting a little bit smarter every time I come to this place :D :D

Keep asking questions. The mojority of the folks that contribute to these boards are very willing and able to assist and pass on information, opinions and experiences.

dun
 

TheBullLady

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We had to ship a really good X339U son in November.. these are his EPD's

CE 5.1
BW 3.1
WW 37.2
YW 63.3
MCE 2.8
MM 1.6
MWW 20.2
CW .5
%RC .12
Marb .02

His actual birthweight was 97 lbs. In my opinion, that was what scared me the most about him. I've had 60+ calves, and we've pulled two. One out of a small framed full-Fleck cow, and one out of a heifer. The heifer probably would have been okay, but we always watch them, and if they seem to be having a difficult time at all, we'll pull the calf. Easier on the heifer and the calf generally.

We used him on heifers and didn't have a problem. His calves birth weights varied from 68 to 102. (Keeping in mind some of the cows he was used on are purebred Brahmans.. which will reduce your birth weights)
 

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