Black is out, Red & White is in

[Angus Rocks]

I believe there is good and bad in every breed. Have no idea what the epd is I don't believe that some of their dna epds have anything do with the way the cattle actually are. Haven't ever been around Hereford so don't know what they are like. Imho I think the biggest problem is that seedstock producers and probably even commercial producers don't cull hard enough for such problems. We got a Charolais bull from a local producer cause one of ours went bad and that thing was wild and the bull producer wouldn't do nothing about it. How does focusing on 2-4 certain traits when seedstock producing makes a problem?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Herefords are docile as pups...

 

[Stocker Steve]

All my cows from all my breeds have good dispositions, and we re test annually when tagging newborns on pasture. The rest went for a ride in the trailer.

 

[Ky hills]

I also agree that there are good and not so good cattle traits in all breeds. The Angus breed as a whole is vast and contains an extremely wide range of type and kind as well as management. My experiences with them has no doubt been different than the majority of folks. I see many herds of them and sometimes I literally marvel at them. Again no doubt that many herds are likely having success with them, but my experience with registered Angus has been disappointing. Have had a hard time finding decent dispositions, and then in recent years feet/leg structure and fertility have also been problematic. I have had to cull several young cows for not calving regularly. Our Hereford and crossbred cows as whole calve more consistently in comparison. I have had better results with Angus bulls than cows, but still have to be very selective. I feel that commercial Angus are more reliable than the registered females that I have had as many were bought through regional consignment sales as heifers, I figure they were likely not the picks of the litter,
Our recent trend towards Herefords has been a bit more successful, they are as a whole calmer and easier to work with. They seem to breed back more regular and wean off bigger calves than the Angus cows.
Have calved out several Hereford over the last few years, and haven't had any issues with prolapse. That being said 30 years ago I had some Charolais cows that were bred up from Herefords and we had quite a few prolapses, with that group of cows and their descendants.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Black Angus is not a breed. Way too much variation. Better off buying Red Angus if you are not a great cattle judge.

 

[Nesikep]

Salers have a temperament EPD as well now I hear (much needed!?).. however I'll say that both my most docile and worst tempered cows were Salers.. the mother of the best tempered one was an exceptionally docile Herf cow and this has been passed on down the line reliably.. Both my homeraised bulls were from her line.

Stocker Steve.. Better off not buying cattle at all!

Ky Hills, One of my nicest steer calves was sired by a red Limo.. though in all fairness, that cow makes the nicest heifers I've ever had with my homeraised bulls, so she's certainly playing a role
I liked this guy

 

[snoopdog]

I'm seeing this trend , along with a more brahma influence into this area . Just had a lengthy discussion with the sale barn rep, and it just makes sense , even though I would never cull or promote on hide color alone. When it's 100 degrees, where are the black cattle at? In the shade . Meanwhile , the aforementioned crosses are up eating , we have always known this . But , being on the cusp of the Ozarks , and the prairie , we have gotten by. At, the risk of turning this political , I would just have to say that , we will have to adapt our herds and breeding to match our conditions , whatever they may be.

 

[Muddy]

Most Angus bulls I had are laid-back but their disposition is a little different than Hereford bulls. Angus bulls get worked up a little easy than Herefords and a little more flighty. They surely won't let the horses close to them...

Angus are smart also.

More like smart as a rock.

 

[Angus Rocks]

I'm seeing this trend , along with a more brahma influence into this area . Just had a lengthy discussion with the sale barn rep, and it just makes sense , even though I would never cull or promote on hide color alone. When it's 100 degrees, where are the black cattle at? In the shade . Meanwhile , the aforementioned crosses are up eating , we have always known this . But , being on the cusp of the Ozarks , and the prairie , we have gotten by. At, the risk of turning this political , I would just have to say that , we will have to adapt our herds and breeding to match our conditions , whatever they may be.

I think what makes a big difference is the slick hided cattle or the ones that don't shed as good but don't know for sure.

I have been reading in Jan Bonsma's book Man must measure and found it interesting that he claims that a person can find out whether a calf is going to be slick hided or wooly hided as he calls it by day 3 from birth. All I have been reading I think I will be looking a lot harder at such things.

If a person is having so many problems with temperament and phenotype why don't you regulate where you buy your stock from a lot harder? I have a friend that went back to old bloodlines because he said he didn't have mainly the fertility and also phenotype in all this new fangled Angus cattle that everybody thinks is so cool

 

[Ky hills]

I'm seeing this trend , along with a more brahma influence into this area . Just had a lengthy discussion with the sale barn rep, and it just makes sense , even though I would never cull or promote on hide color alone. When it's 100 degrees, where are the black cattle at? In the shade . Meanwhile , the aforementioned crosses are up eating , we have always known this . But , being on the cusp of the Ozarks , and the prairie , we have gotten by. At, the risk of turning this political , I would just have to say that , we will have to adapt our herds and breeding to match our conditions , whatever they may be.

I think what makes a big difference is the slick hided cattle or the ones that don't shed as good but don't know for sure.

I have been reading in Jan Bonsma's book Man must measure and found it interesting that he claims that a person can find out whether a calf is going to be slick hided or wooly hided as he calls it by day 3 from birth. All I have been reading I think I will be looking a lot harder at such things.

If a person is having so many problems with temperament and phenotype why don't you regulate where you buy your stock from a lot harder? I have a friend that went back to old bloodlines because he said he didn't have mainly the fertility and also phenotype in all this new fangled Angus cattle that everybody thinks is so cool

In my situation I did regulate where I get bulls. I try to raise my own Angus Bulls to breed heifers too, and switching to Herefords. It is good advice to switch breeders or lines of cattle, but most folks are using the same lines. The few outfits that I know of that aren't using the modern bloodlines seem to not have the performance of the others and dispositions are still an issue. I was paying 3000 to over 4000 for bulls which would be consistent for real good bulls of any breed but with the hope of using them more than one season. Understand I am not saying this is only an Angus problem but that's the breed of bull we have used the most lately. In comparison we had several Charolais Bulls in the past and did not have any feet or leg issues with them or disposition. I'm confident that there are good Angus available just gun shy of investing in another one.

 

[Angus Rocks]

[quote/]
In my situation I did regulate where I get bulls. I try to raise my own Angus Bulls to breed heifers too, and switching to Herefords. It is good advice to switch breeders or lines of cattle, but most folks are using the same lines. The few outfits that I know of that aren't using the modern bloodlines seem to not have the performance of the others and dispositions are still an issue. I was paying 3000 to over 4000 for bulls which would be consistent for real good bulls of any breed but with the hope of using them more than one season. Understand I am not saying this is only an Angus problem but that's the breed of bull we have used the most lately. In comparison we had several Charolais Bulls in the past and did not have any feet or leg issues with them or disposition. I'm confident that there are good Angus available just gun shy of investing in another one.[/quote]

Ten 4 I understand my herd is far from perfect.

The last Angus bull I got his sire is from New Zealand the breeder went there and got hooked up with a guy there and is using it because he basically wanted an outcross to everything that was here in the United States.

 

[Muddy]

I think I like the Google eyed bull better (the second picture)

 

[True Grit Farms]

Looks like they need to be wormed.

 

[elkwc]

I think I like the Google eyed bull better (the second picture)

He has the potential. Will be interested in how he develops.