Black Herefords vs Black Angus

[Sir Loin]

Van,
Re:

Your implication that Angus beef is better than Hereford or any other breed is your opinion, nothing more.

NO! That is where you are wrong. IT IS NOT MY opinion; it's the opinion of the meet inspectors/packing houses and the consumers.
Which is exactly why a premium for black hide is being paid.
They are not paying a premium for the hide, they are paying a premium for what is under the hide. The hide color is only a way to determine what is under the hide. The same as is ultrasound.
My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with it! I would raise gay pink cows if that is where the demand is ($$$$$$$).
Re:

While Angus is a fine breed, and Angus beef is usually very good, they're on top now because of an excellent marketing campaign. That is my opinion. Did you miss this thread?

Yep. I read it.
And that's your opinion and your entitled to it.
Ah hello, isn't marketing what it's all about? Haven't we discussed marketing at least a 1,000 times on these boards?
Do you have something against a successful marketing strategy?
My hat's off to them.
And my hat will be off to Black Hereford if they pull this con job off.

Re:

Do you really believe that Angus beef and Red Angus beef are that different?

It doesn't matter what I think. It is what the markets thinks and they must think so or they wouldn't be paying a premium for Black Angus.
Re:

One gets the premium; one does not, based on hide color alone.

Basically that is true. But the real reason is that, by the red color, there is no indication what is under the hide color. It could be Angus or some other red breed influence which does not deserve the premium based on present market demand.

Re:

Again, I disagree that the "best beef" can be identified based on hide color alone,

First: I never said Angus beef was the "best beef" nor did I say the "best beef" could be identified by hide color alone.
Fact: Market forces determine which beef is the "best beef".
Second: Meat inspector and the consumers determine which beef is the "best beef" after the hide has been removed and is unseen.
Therefore the hide color is ONLY an indication of the quality of beef underneath.

Re:

If that were true, why would "black whiteface cattle sell better than black cattle",

I don't know that to be true.
We sell black Baldies at the same price as Black Angus.
Define: "black whiteface". What is the breed influence?
We sell "black whiteface" Holsteins for less then Black Angus and Black Baldies.

Re:

Wouldn't the obvious Hereford influence of a black baldy lessen it's value compared to Angus?

No. Think of it the other way around.
The Angus influence increased the Herefords value.
What % Angus is needed to register Black Baldies?
What % Hereford is needed to register a Black Hereford?
SL
PS Now stop it, all this thinking is giving me a headache.

 

[somn]

IT IS NOT MY opinion; it's the opinion of the meet inspectors/packing houses and the consumers.
Which is exactly why a premium for black hide is being paid.

They are not paying a premium for the hide.

So what way is it sir loin first you say a premium is being paid for the hide then you say they are not paying a premium for the hide. This seems to follow another thread some time ago when you couldn't make up your mind about the definition of dressing weight.

 

[SCRUBS620]

Quote:
If that were true, why would "black whiteface cattle sell better than black cattle",

I don't know that to be true.
We sell black Baldies at the same price as Black Angus.
Define: "black whiteface". What is the breed influence?
We sell "black whiteface" Holsteins for less then Black Angus and Black Baldies.

Re:
Quote:
Wouldn't the obvious Hereford influence of a black baldy lessen it's value compared to Angus?

No. Think of it the other way around.
The Angus influence increased the Herefords value.
What % Angus is needed to register Black Baldies?
What % Hereford is needed to register a Black Hereford?
SL
PS Now stop it, all this thinking is giving me a headache.

Has anyone mentioned heterosis? A black baldy (angus x hereford) should outperform either the straight angus or the Hereford. It seems to me like the Black Hereford is just a stabilized black baldy; which could have advantages. A lot of producers use black baldies as mama cows because of their disposition and productivity. If you had a bull that was not homozygous for the black trait these cows could throw red calves, which alot of people dont want and are discounted by buyers (in reality it just gives the buyer a reason to short you). So is there any heterosis advantage left in the black herefords?

 

[Sir Loin]

Scrubs,
Re:

So is there any heterosis advantage left in the black herefords?

There may be some validity to your hypothesis but that is not what they (the Black Hereford supporters) are saying.
Plain and simple, they are saying they want to ride on the back of black hides (Angus) and receive a premium for their cattle without improving their cattle to meet Angus standards.

IMO they could just as easily use black shoe polish to reach their goal and not have to scam hard working ranchers into buying their same old Herefords in a new dress.
IMO the only people who will receive a premium for Black Herefords are those who are selling the breeding stock.

If you really want to receive a premium for your cattle and want to go white face, why not do it the right way and go Black Baldie and avoid a possible lengthy and costly lawsuit?

Where do you people get off thinking you can attach your boxcar to the Black Angus train and get a free ride?
There are laws against this kind of infringements ya know!
And for you people to openly flaunt and admit what you are doing publicly is far beyond my comprehension.

And for you people thinking of buying into this scam, go buy Black Baldies and save yourself a whole lot of money. Or buy your own shoe polish.
Case closed
SL

 

[bgm]

Seems to me the intent of the "black hereford" association is to drum up a market for these over glorified commercial cattle and get someone to pay a premium price for the bulls they produce.

The only thing I can say to that is, PT Barnum was right.

 

[VanC]

Which is exactly why a premium for black hide is being paid.
They are not paying a premium for the hide, they are paying a premium for what is under the hide.

You're arguing with yourself again. Do you drink?

The hide color is only a way to determine what is under the hide.

Bull. Anyone who says they can tell the quality of a carcass by hide color alone is a liar.

Ah hello, isn't marketing what it's all about? Haven't we discussed marketing at least a 1,000 times on these boards?
Do you have something against a successful marketing strategy?
My hat's off to them.
And my hat will be off to Black Hereford if they pull this con job off.

Yes, marketing is what it's all about. That's my point. Marketing has convinced a lot of people that Angus beef is better than any other. I don't think that is particularly true. There are other breeds that have just as much to offer as Angus, but haven't been marketed as well.
No, I don't have anything against a successful marketing strategy. More power to them.

Re:

Again, I disagree that the "best beef" can be identified based on hide color alone,

First: I never said Angus beef was the "best beef" nor did I say the "best beef" could be identified by hide color alone.

For God's sake, man! That's what you've been saying all along! Here's just one example:

Here are three pics. Can you tell by the pics alone which two are Angus influenced and have the best beef and which one has Hereford influence and of lesser quality beef?
SL

Re:

If that were true, why would "black whiteface cattle sell better than black cattle",

I don't know that to be true.

The entire quote was: "It has been proven that black cattle sell better than red or white, and black whiteface cattle sell better than black cattle.
The Black Hereford Association has been developed to take advantage of that fact."

YOU'RE the one that cited it!

Re:

Wouldn't the obvious Hereford influence of a black baldy lessen it's value compared to Angus?

No. Think of it the other way around.
The Angus influence increased the Herefords value.

You have stated, for all the world to see, that Hereford beef is of a lesser quality than Angus beef. My question again is if that were true, why would black calves with obvious Hereford influence outsell black calves without that influence?

What % Angus is needed to register Black Baldies?

They can't be registered.

What % Hereford is needed to register a Black Hereford?

see http://www.blackhereford.com

 

[VanC]

Has anyone mentioned heterosis? A black baldy (angus x hereford) should outperform either the straight angus or the Hereford. It seems to me like the Black Hereford is just a stabilized black baldy; which could have advantages. A lot of producers use black baldies as mama cows because of their disposition and productivity. If you had a bull that was not homozygous for the black trait these cows could throw red calves, which alot of people dont want and are discounted by buyers (in reality it just gives the buyer a reason to short you). So is there any heterosis advantage left in the black herefords?

No more than any other purebred bull, but I don't think that's the point. You touched on it in your post. A guy wants to use a Hereford bull, but he doesn't want red calves. He uses a homozygous Black Hereford bull and, VOILA!, he's got the Hereford influence he wants and all black calves. Same reasoning as a guy who uses a black Simmie, Gelbvieh, Limo, Char, etc. I'm not a big fan of Black Herefords yet, but I try to keep an open mind, and I think I understand what they're trying to do.

 

[dun]

Has anyone evr heard the term "As full of crap as a chrismas goose"?

 

[OhioRiver]

I am seeing that hereford beef is making close to the same as angus

Has anyone evr heard the term "As full of crap as a chrismas goose"?

 

[CattleHand]

I dont know if you are still interested in them but the black baldies out sell black angus at our stock yards.

 

[grannysoo]

So what is a Holstein x Hereford?

A Hillbilly Hybred.

Still laughing about that one. If anyone wants to buy some $100,000 hybred bulls, give me a shout. I'll breed some up for ya!