Black Hereford

[Travlr]

What day was that ?
Every breed in existence is the result of originating from Animals outside the registry ,
Some are just more willing to admit it .

You just like being pedantic and for no good reason. Any reasonable person knows how breeds originated in the past and how registration worked when it actually meant something.

 

[Ky hills]

As long as the white ( or any other color) isn't behind the shoulder, above the flanks, or breaking the midline, excluding the tail, then the white won't exclude them from CAB as long as the hide is 51% black.

It doesn't matter what CAB excludes, when a person sells their calves at the stockyards, those BWF calves with white legs and feather necks are going to get the crap docked out of them, with the justification being they look like Holstein cross. Now somewhere towards the end of the line somebody might actually sell them for CAB and make a profit on them simply by having bought them at a significant discount. Those calves are absolutely not going to be much different in price than a purebred looking red Hereford on sale day for the cow calf person selling them.

 

[Rmc]

You just like being pedantic and for no good reason. Any reasonable person knows how breeds originated in the past and how registration worked when it actually meant something.

Once again when in YOUR opinion did registration actually mean something?
Back during the belt buckle cattle days ?
Or after the frame race when every bred magically jumped in frame size overnight?
Unless and until a registry requires parent dna verification on both parents they will be subject to outside blood being introduced. And has been that way from the beginning, some accidental many intentional . Many different points of view . You said that you missed when registrations actually meant something. When was that in your opinion?

 

[Rafter S]

. . . To change it up to work better in the deep south, F1 Hereford X Brahman cows with and Angus bull.

Crossing Hereford with black Brangus works pretty good in warm climates also. The steers gain well, and the heifers make excellent cows, bred to just about any beef breed bull. This avoids the problem of the relatively low value of the steers from the Brahman x Hereford cross.

 

[Ky hills]

Crossing Hereford with black Brangus works pretty good in warm climates also. The steers gain well, and the heifers make excellent cows, bred to just about any beef breed bull. This avoids the problem of the relatively low value of the steers from the Brahman x Hereford cross.

That is a good cross. The most I ever got when selling bred heifers was with a group of Brangus x Hereford. They were big framed well made BWF.
The odd thing is there's not a lot of Brangus right around here. I wish that there were more I think they'd work real well. There's actually more Santa Gertrudis and Beefmasters, here and getting to be a few more straight Brahman bulls again.
I like Santa Gertrudis x Hereford for cows then an Angus bull over them.

 

[Warren Allison]

Where I believe you're getting out into the weeds is in thinking that a "black Hereford" x traditional real red Hereford will result in a similar looking conservatively marked animal to a true F1 Hereford x Angus BWF.

No, I don't think that at all. A homo for black Hereford x red Hereford will yield a black Hereford. A hetero for black Hereford crossed with a red Hereford has a 50% chance of producing a black Hereford and a 50% chance of producing a red Hereford. A red Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. A homo black Hereford x a red Angus will yield a black baldy. And of course, a black Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. All three calves will look the same.

 

[kenny thomas]

No, I don't think that at all. A homo for black Hereford x red Hereford will yield a black Hereford. A hetero for black Hereford crossed with a red Hereford has a 50% chance of producing a black Hereford and a 50% chance of producing a red Hereford. A red Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. A homo black Hereford x a red Angus will yield a black baldy. And of course, a black Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. All three calves will look the same.

Again the biggest difference in the calves will be how much white it shows.

 

[Warren Allison]

Again the biggest difference in the calves will be how much white it shows.

True, but that has to do with how much is on the parents, and has nothing to do with coat color being red or black.

 

[Ky hills]

No, I don't think that at all. A homo for black Hereford x red Hereford will yield a black Hereford. A hetero for black Hereford crossed with a red Hereford has a 50% chance of producing a black Hereford and a 50% chance of producing a red Hereford. A red Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. A homo black Hereford x a red Angus will yield a black baldy. And of course, a black Hereford x black Angus will yield a black baldy. All three calves will look the same.

Warren, the difference is with Hereford to Hereford whatever the color and Hereford to baldy whatever the color, those calves can absolutely have more white on them than a cross of a Hereford x Angus whatever the color. The Angus crosses will be more conservative marked, but the higher percentage Hereford calves can be a whole range from conservative to chrome overload. I know this to be true because we have the had the Hereford and Hereford cross cattle to prove it by.

 

[kenny thomas]

True, but that has to do with how much is on the parents, and has nothing to do with coat color being red or black.

I totally agree, partially. As someone has already said the white shows up sometimes when the parents arent showing it, in the Black Herefords.

 

[kenny thomas]

Before anyone thinks im bashing the Herefords i really like a good dark red Hereford. Bred to my homozygous black Simmental bulls i get great calves.

 

[Warren Allison]

Warren, the difference is with Hereford to Hereford whatever the color and Hereford to baldy whatever the color, those calves can absolutely have more white on them than a cross of a Hereford x Angus whatever the color. The Angus crosses will be more conservative marked, but the higher percentage Hereford calves can be a whole range from conservative to chrome overload. I know this to be true because we have the had the Hereford and Hereford cross cattle to prove it by.

Absolutely. That is exactly why the black Hereford was developed...to increase the odds of a black baldy, for those people who use commercial "black Angus" bulls...or cows...that aren't homozygous black. In recent years, BH's are used more and more for f1 Braford crosses, and are being used by those trying to produce black Beefmasters.

 

[Warren Allison]

I totally agree, partially. As someone has already said the white shows up sometimes when the parents arent showing it, in the Black Herefords.

No more or less than red Herefords.

 

[Brute 23]

 

[Brute 23]

Absolutely. That is exactly why the black Hereford was developed...to increase the odds of a black baldy, for those people who use commercial "black Angus" bulls...or cows...that aren't homozygous black. In recent years, BH's are used more and more for f1 Braford crosses, and are being used by those trying to produce black Beefmasters.

You can't have an F1 with 3 breeds of cattle.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Yall have seen my Registered Red "Black Hereford" cows in the thread I made last year.
Every one of them had a mostly black calf. Only one I think had a splash of white on his face.
Those calves were sired by registered black hereford bulls.
I bred them to a purebred black angus bull. PeeWee.
Should have calves dropping any day. I know the guy who bought those cows and I've been checking occassionally to see what the calves look like from that black bull. I doubt I'll get any pics from the guy. But if I hear, I'll relay it along.

This whole thread, once again, stirred up the poop!

 

[mwj]

Theory on paper and color on calves can be quite different.

 

[kenny thomas]

Im pretty sure this belongs to a CT member that raises registered Black Hereford. If they were all this black i would like them. Hope he doesn't mind me posting a picture from Facebook.

 

[Travlr]

Once again when in YOUR opinion did registration actually mean something?
Back during the belt buckle cattle days ?
Or after the frame race when every bred magically jumped in frame size overnight?
Unless and until a registry requires parent dna verification on both parents they will be subject to outside blood being introduced. And has been that way from the beginning, some accidental many intentional . Many different points of view . You said that you missed when registrations actually meant something. When was that in your opinion?

It was before "internet experts".

 

[MurraysMutts]

Im pretty sure this belongs to a CT member that raises registered Black Hereford. If they were all this black i would like them. Hope he doesn't mind me posting a picture from Facebook. View attachment 59426

That's what they're SUPPOSED to look like!

Using a Black Hereford bull over solid black or red cows should give the baldies everyone likes. And a homozygous Black Hereford bull should give BLACK baldies from either of that type cow. It's always been my understanding that's the whole idea behind the breed.