Black Charolais

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dun

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There a re red ones too. Seems I saw a US webistethat ahdsome of them but I don; think either of them can be registerd in the US
 

Angus In Texas

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For some reason I seem to recall Three Trees in Georgia having some already. I could be wrong about it being Three Trees, but I am pretty sure someone has them.
 
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Frankie

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novaman":2e5zxbdt said:
You feeling threatened there Frankie? :lol:

Not especially. :) Charolais was one of the breeds that seemed to mostly stay true to their roots. So when I saw this, it made me a bit sad. But as hard as we work, you're never going to get everyone to use Angus bulls, so several big Angus breeders have added Charolais to their program. I knew Three Trees had them; didn't realize they were black, though.
 

VLS_GUY

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The bull that Frankie posted the link to is a not much of a bull black red or white. His EPDs are below average and individual performance is not great. The same outfit has a red Charolais bull that even worse performance numbers. Neither bull would have kept his manhood on my place. To see some good red Charolais see my links on previous email threads.
This outfit has a dream to build a composite breed using their Angus herd and few other breeds, red and black Charolais among them. Not a great start given the quality of these two bulls.
By the way HEJ, Char-Maine, and Lorne Wagers were the pioneers of the black Charolais. Their are likely fewer than 50 true black purebred Charolais around. Ask them to be polled and the numbers drop even further.
 

VLS_GUY

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Every non European Charolais Association accepts purebred Charolais that are not white. They are registered in the red registry and have a Q added to their registration number prefix.
The only cattle called fullbloods in the Charolais business are cattle that were descended from the original Mexican imports in the 1930's. Cattle descended only from direct imports from France are called Full French. Basically the Mexican fullbloods are Full french with out the verification to ensure parentage. Red Mexican fullbloods (MGM Marlot) and very dark cream colored Full French (TEE Anchor Aiglon) are around showing the red color is in every major strain of Charolais. The black color was obtained from upgrading on Angus and Holstein cows. Showing white such as white faces and stars on the forehead is a big problem in the red Charolais.
 

HEREFORD ROADHOG

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In my book the Black Or Red Charlois should be listed under CROSSBREED. just like Black Herefords,Black Simmentals, Black Shorthorns or any other PRUEBRED variety that is not pureblooded. :???: What really gets me is all the "certified Angus beef" that everyone sells.Just because it came out of a black cow dosen't make it Angus. :mad:
 
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Frankie

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HEREFORD ROADHOG":g34v83br said:
In my book the Black Or Red Charlois should be listed under CROSSBREED. just like Black Herefords,Black Simmentals, Black Shorthorns or any other PRUEBRED variety that is not pureblooded. :???: What really gets me is all the "certified Angus beef" that everyone sells.Just because it came out of a black cow dosen't make it Angus. :mad:

How about Certified Hereford Beef? Where does that fit in your "book"?
 

VLS_GUY

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Roadhog,

Their are well documented cases of red Charolais calves out of what would be considered white parents. Are these calves not still purebred?
Also all certified beef programs actively encourage the use of a particular breeds bulls in a crossbreeding situation as a way to market bulls. When the Angus breed markets calves out of Angus bulls as certified Angus beef all is right with the world. The problem is that lately any black hided critter is used in the program-hurting the integrity of the program.
In the instance of the red and black Charolais a demand developed for red and black bulls because they put Charolais performance in a non color diluting package. In the area these cattle were developed the Charolais breed is the established breed. Raising red and black Charolais let new breeders differentiate themselves in the market and get attention in the marketplace. Lately the market for these cattle has been saturated with average prices received at bull sales ensuring the number that will be raised in the future (particularly blacks).
 

3waycross

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VLS_GUY":2d2ii4sf said:
Roadhog,

Their are well documented cases of red Charolais calves out of what would be considered white parents. Are these calves not still purebred?
Also all certified beef programs actively encourage the use of a particular breeds bulls in a crossbreeding situation as a way to market bulls. When the Angus breed markets calves out of Angus bulls as certified Angus beef all is right with the world. The problem is that lately any black hided critter is used in the program-hurting the integrity of the program. How does it hurt the integrity of the program if it meets ALL the predetermined specifications of the PROGRAM
In the instance of the red and black Charolais a demand developed for red and black bulls because they put Charolais performance in a non color diluting package. In the area these cattle were developed the Charolais breed is the established breed. Raising red and black Charolais let new breeders differentiate themselves in the market and get attention in the marketplace. Lately the market for these cattle has been saturated with average prices received at bull sales ensuring the number that will be raised in the future (particularly blacks).
 

VLS_GUY

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How does using cattle that do not have any Angus in them hurt the integrity of CAB? Simple. The implication from CAB advertising is that the beef comes from Angus and Angus cross cattle. If you force the consumer to read the fine print to find the loop holes that allow other cattle into the program then the consumers expectations on the origin of the product are not being met. On that issue CAB is sitting on a time bomb. Consumers want to know where their food is coming from as it ties into food safety. If you are up front about the type of cattle being used what about other aspects of the beef production process?
 

alftn

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The problem is not with CAB but the people that turn their non- angus cattle black to pass them off as Black Angus.. When CAB was set up ANGUS were BLACK very little else...Maybe it is the cheats that turn their non-black breeds Black, to pass them off as Black Angus that is the crooks....
 

3waycross

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VLS_GUY":55jckrmz said:
How does using cattle that do not have any Angus in them hurt the integrity of CAB? Simple. The implication from CAB advertising is that the beef comes from Angus and Angus cross cattle. If you force the consumer to read the fine print to find the loop holes that allow other cattle into the program then the consumers expectations on the origin of the product are not being met. On that issue CAB is sitting on a time bomb. Consumers want to know where their food is coming from as it ties into food safety. If you are up front about the type of cattle being used what about other aspects of the beef production process?


The only way to accomplish what you propose is TOTAL source verification and or DNA testing of EVERY animal that is "eligible" for CAB..

What other choices are there. In the end CAB may be a victim of it's own success.

Imitation or scratching and clawing for inclusion in this case is STILL the sincerest form of flattery

I still stand by my statement; "If it meets ALL the criteria for CAB how are you going to exclude it?"
 

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