Black Charolais?

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dyates

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Looks like somebody else has jumped on the bandwagon. I know this isn't really news, but it was news to me. I haven't bothered to post a link, but search for three trees ranch. Angus and Charolais go together like peanut butter and jelly for me, but I don't know about a black charolais.
 

alacattleman

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dyates":2rs3bnen said:
Looks like somebody else has jumped on the bandwagon. I know this isn't really news, but it was news to me. I haven't bothered to post a link, but search for three trees ranch. Angus and Charolais go together like peanut butter and jelly for me, but I don't know about a black charolais.
they do as far as heterosis..... but start breeding for a single trait then you'r lost, meanwhile the guy that still crossing them is kickin' ass.
 

Keren

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Okay, I have a question, two actually. It was my understanding that the Red Factor Charolais is a natural thing and so you can get reds in your french fullbloods, right?

And secondly, I know the blacks must have to be purebreds, not french fullbloods, but how did they get around the diluter gene? Dont all charolais have the diluter so that an Angus/Charolais F1 will be smokey grey instead of black? Or are there some that dont have that gene?
 

dun

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Keren":2syv5wx7 said:
Okay, I have a question, two actually. It was my understanding that the Red Factor Charolais is a natural thing and so you can get reds in your french fullbloods, right?

And secondly, I know the blacks must have to be purebreds, not french fullbloods, but how did they get around the diluter gene? Dont all charolais have the diluter so that an Angus/Charolais F1 will be smokey grey instead of black? Or are there some that dont have that gene?
Don;t know about the red, but I would think that you would use enough F1s ans subsequent black bulls to eventually get rid of the diluter gene
 

alacattleman

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dun":3mqoh8ni said:
Keren":3mqoh8ni said:
Okay, I have a question, two actually. It was my understanding that the Red Factor Charolais is a natural thing and so you can get reds in your french fullbloods, right?

And secondly, I know the blacks must have to be purebreds, not french fullbloods, but how did they get around the diluter gene? Dont all charolais have the diluter so that an Angus/Charolais F1 will be smokey grey instead of black? Or are there some that dont have that gene?
Don;t know about the red, but I would think that you would use enough F1s ans subsequent black bulls to eventually get rid of the diluter gene
do you mean when they become homozygous for black?
 

randiliana

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Keren":2bnvimow said:
Okay, I have a question, two actually. It was my understanding that the Red Factor Charolais is a natural thing and so you can get reds in your french fullbloods, right?

And secondly, I know the blacks must have to be purebreds, not french fullbloods, but how did they get around the diluter gene? Dont all charolais have the diluter so that an Angus/Charolais F1 will be smokey grey instead of black? Or are there some that dont have that gene?

Karen, here is the link to the French studbook (i think) where they describe the 'true' charolais.

http://www.charolaise.fr/herd_book_char ... ues_en.htm


I was fairly certain that a true French Charolais comes in only white, but I checked it out to be sure. The red factor came in, in countries where the breed was introduced and that allowed the animals to be 'bred up' to purebred status. Red Factor Charolais are common here in Canada.

The French Charolais is basically a red animal that is homozygous for the dilution gene, which makes them white. If you took one of them and bred them black you would end up with a grey animal, or if you bred them to red you would get tan. You could get many shades of either color, from dark to light. Also, you will see in Canada (at least) Charolais that will throw white faces, markings on the face and line backs. This all goes back to when the breed was bred up. In fact, I have seen registered bulls with white markings on their faces.
 
A

Anonymous

We also get white faces etc on the 'red' Charolais here, though it's undesirable.
As Keren said, ours aren't the full blown red on that site, the darkest they get is like a light apricot Limo
 

randiliana

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Keren":2u2tivvw said:
thanks Randi!

This came from that website:

a spotless, uniformly white or sometimes cream coat

Would the 'sometimes cream coat' be a red factor animal?

The red factors here in Australia are a cream to tan colour, not full blown solid red like on that website that someone else posted.

Technically, all French Chars are red factor ;-) that is the base coat color.

As in all ee and DD

I think that the French Chars are homo for the dilution gene, so most likely there is some other gene at play that deepens or lightens the dilution so you get white to cream, which would look white except when compared to a 'true' white animal.

Here in Canada, the red factors can range anywhere from cream to dark, dark red. The true red ones of course are not even carrying the dilution gene. Which makes it possible for a person to use a Charolais bull and never get a diluted calf, unless you bred him to a cow with a dilution gene. I've thouight about it, when looking for a terminal sire for our herd, which includes a lot of black cows. Grey calves don't sell real well here.
 

kenny thomas

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If I remember correctly at least some of the black charolais in Canada were developed by using the darkest red bulls on the darkest red cows. They kept crossing these until some started coming black or at least so dark they are considered black.
As said before a white/black cross will never be black.
 

alexfarms

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brandonm_13":1vtdrpnl said:
Black Charolais... What's next black Limousins, herefords, and gelbviehs? Oh wait... :(

Ok, I'll bite.
http://www.blackhereford.com/

JN ranch in Kansas is having their black hereford sale on February 25. I am trying to talk my son into skipping school and going with me to it....still up in the air. I talked to someone at JN a couple years ago and he said they had some 7/8 Herefords that were solid black and the commercial producers loved them because of they possessed Hereford charactistics and had the black color. On another note: At Miles City they were working on starting a line of solid red Herefords by crossing some of their CGC cattle with Herefords and breeding them up in Hereford percentage. It is all interesting and i don't see anything wrong with it, they are upfront about it, their cattle are crossed for color and bred up for Hereford percentage. It may be of questionable value in the long run though. And maybe not, they may be laying the foundation for the future of the Hereford breed.
 

redcowsrule33

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I guess there's nothing wrong with it, but in my experience, a person needs to be careful with animals being selected for color, especially early on in development. In the push for the right color other things may be neglected phenotypically and genetically. If they are doing this on a large enough scale to be able to "breed the best eat the rest" great.

alexfarms":38a7faxp said:
I talked to someone at JN a couple years ago and he said they had some 7/8 Herefords that were solid black and the commercial producers loved them because of they possessed Hereford charactistics and had the black color.

I always wondered how long it would take for the breeds that haven't lost their color identity to finally succumb to the black plague. Does it not seem strange that they want everything about the herefords besides the color? Why do we have to disguise an animal as Angus-based to appreciate their attributes? I'm not wanting to start another color war here; it just makes my head hurt.
 

dun

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Angus Cowman":1tcv57gz said:
Like I have been saying all along BLACK is BETTER and all of these breeds going black proves it
they just want to imitate the best :lol:

if it isn't black send it back

Even if I could push them back in, these Red Angus and Hereford calves ain;t ever gonna cook enough to get burned black
 

TREY-L

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dun":3sy3qa9h said:
Angus Cowman":3sy3qa9h said:
Like I have been saying all along BLACK is BETTER and all of these breeds going black proves it
they just want to imitate the best :lol:

if it isn't black send it back

Even if I could push them back in, these Red Angus and Hereford calves ain;t ever gonna cook enough to get burned black

I think many breeds are losing part of their "identity" by chasing those black hided cattle premiums. I guess I'll just wait around until the tide turns, and eventually it will. When everyone is running away from everything black, I'll be quietly waiting in the wings. When everything is the same then what makes one product more special than the other? Why would it warrant a premium? I know this has been hashed and rehashed, but I just thought I'd weigh in.

A Charolais will always be white (or some varying shade thereof) to me.
 
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