Black Charolais?

[Muddy]

Draper,

Read my post on the origins of the black Charolais. Not all Charolais cattle have the diluter gene. A dark red Charolais will produce a red roan and a black Charolais a blue roan when bred to a Shorthorn. If you don't believe me contact the guys that raise these non duluter charolais or Google Shorthorn red
Charolais cross. The color genes in nondiluter Charolais work those in every other cattle breed.

For some reason, even white Charolais can produce normal red calves. It's hard to tell if the red calf is diluted or not.

 

[lms0229]

Draper....yeah considering cattle only come in 3 colors and all other colors are modifiers of those three...than yes you do need a dilution gene on black to get blue. No cattle exist in any color besides red, black and wild...everything outside of that is a modifier or an albino. And not every every Charolais carries two dilution genes. Also, I stated to get blue spotting (not roan) was from a Charolais X Holstein. So you are incorrect in stating that "nothing bred to a Charolais is going to come out blue".... here is a BLUE spotted calf from a Charolais X Holstein mating....

 

[Ky hills]

Draper....yeah considering cattle only come in 3 colors and all other colors are modifiers of those three...than yes you do need a dilution gene on black to get blue. No cattle exist in any color besides red, black and wild...everything outside of that is a modifier or an albino. And not every every Charolais carries two dilution genes. Also, I stated to get blue spotting (not roan) was from a Charolais X Holstein. So you are incorrect in stating that "nothing bred to a Charolais is going to come out blue".... here is a BLUE spotted calf from a Charolais X Holstein mating....

No offense meant at all, but isn't that just a typical diluted mouse colored or smoky calf from a Charolais x Holstein? Spotting from Holstein with typical dilution on the black coloring? I've seen several of those and never thought of that as blue.

 

[RockinRB]

I agree with KY Hills, I've only heard people call the dilutor on black as smokey, grey, mouse, etc.
Blue is when there is roan hairs on black cows.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The first charolais in the USA were bred up from a mix of longhorns and hereford. They came from mexico and the Pugibet herd.


http://afs.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/charolais/

Not quite try Brahman.

"In the late 1940s and early 1950s the breeders established the American Charbray Breeders Association and the American Charolais Breeders Association, both of which limited pedigrees to a blend of Charolais and Brahman breeding. Producers who were utilizing other beef breed cows to produce Charolais by compounding Charolais blood through successive generations, formed the International Charolais Association. In 1957, the American and International Associations merged into today's American-International Charolais Association (AICA). In 1964, the Pan-American Charolais Association, whose registrations were based on performance rather than genetic content, merged into the AICA. And three years later, the American Charbray Breeders Association merged with the AICA, bringing all Charolais-based breeds in the United States under the fold of a single breed registry."

 

[Ky hills]

The first charolais in the USA were bred up from a mix of longhorns and hereford. They came from mexico and the Pugibet herd.


http://afs.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/charolais/

Not quite try Brahman.

"In the late 1940s and early 1950s the breeders established the American Charbray Breeders Association and the American Charolais Breeders Association, both of which limited pedigrees to a blend of Charolais and Brahman breeding. Producers who were utilizing other beef breed cows to produce Charolais by compounding Charolais blood through successive generations, formed the International Charolais Association. In 1957, the American and International Associations merged into today's American-International Charolais Association (AICA). In 1964, the Pan-American Charolais Association, whose registrations were based on performance rather than genetic content, merged into the AICA. And three years later, the American Charbray Breeders Association merged with the AICA, bringing all Charolais-based breeds in the United States under the fold of a single breed registry."

There's bound to be quite a bit of other breeds in the background of American Charolais. I know of a bloodline years ago that some of the cattle showed Brahman characteristics like longer drooping ears and lots of navel and dewlap leather. They also tended to have a distinctive long slender head and dark colored noses. We also had some calves that at birth had faint reddish Hereford markings but turned white with a few weeks.

 

[76 Bar]

I haven't used Charolais since the 70's when I acquired a group of bulls & females via a dispersal sale. They were linebred to the Litton Sam bull. After initial culling for various and sundry reasons they proved to be excellent producers. Never had structural/udder or calving problems. Darned good cattle.

 

[Ky hills]

I haven't used Charolais since the 70's when I acquired a group of bulls & females via a dispersal sale. They were linebred to the Litton Sam bull. After initial culling for various and sundry reasons they proved to be excellent producers. Never had structural/udder or calving problems. Darned good cattle.

My best cow of any breed that I have had came from that line. She was around 1500 lbs and always had the lightest birthweight calf regardless of what bull she was bred to, and her calves always weaned off as either the top or near the top both in weight and overall quality. At 12 years of age though she didn't get bred back

 

[Muddy]

Charolais weren't breeding up from Brahman solely...last time I checked, Brahman didn't carrying white face, spots and lineback traits that were found in Charolais. Hereford, Fleckvieh and Mexican native cattle were used heavily in Charolais' breedup program when Charolais was introduced to the Americas. That is how the lineback trait and odd colors ended up in the Charolais genepool...

 

[76 Bar]

Ky...Your girl mirrors my experience precisely. Super docile as well. Profound tragedy Litton and his family perished.

 

[76 Bar]

Some of us were fortunate early on to get the unadulterated real deal. 8)

 

[Ky hills]

Ky...Your girl mirrors my experience precisely. Super docile as well. Profound tragedy Litton and his family perished.

Yes mine was extremely docile as well and so were her calves.

 

[Flyingkcattle]

Exactly what Ims0229 said. We run blk Angus, Charolais, and F1 smoke cows. When you cross those smoke cows back on an Angus bull you'll start getting black hides calves.

Curious do you always get rat tail or no tail on the Smokey f1 cows you kept?

 

[Flyingkcattle]

Draper....yeah considering cattle only come in 3 colors and all other colors are modifiers of those three...than yes you do need a dilution gene on black to get blue. No cattle exist in any color besides red, black and wild...everything outside of that is a modifier or an albino. And not every every Charolais carries two dilution genes. Also, I stated to get blue spotting (not roan) was from a Charolais X Holstein. So you are incorrect in stating that "nothing bred to a Charolais is going to come out blue".... here is a BLUE spotted calf from a Charolais X Holstein mating....

Yes, The dilution gene on red makes cream and on black, it makes blue. So it looks like the dilution gene was inhereted from the Charolais and expressed onto the calf whose base spot color is black with dilution turning it blue.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Curious do you always get rat tail or no tail on the Smokey f1 cows you kept?

99.5% No rat tails. I usually associate rat tails with Smokey Simmentals.

 

[Flyingkcattle]

99.5% No rat tails. I usually associate rat tails with Smokey Simmentals.

Any experience with a Charolais cow and black limousine cross? Know if it produces rat tails?

 

[Ky hills]

I've heard of rat tails, but never seen one that I knew of. I sold Charolais bulls to mainly commercial producers, many of which had used Charolais from several different breeders, and never heard it ever mentioned as being an issue.

 

[Flyingkcattle]

I've heard of rat tails, but never seen one that I knew of. I sold Charolais bulls to mainly commercial producers, many of which had used Charolais from several different breeders, and never heard it ever mentioned as being an issue.

Thanks so much, we got one last year off a Charolais cross cow (Charolais colored) and angus bull. He was built beautifully but rat tail. My husbands family got them off commercial black cows and Charolais bull for years. We bought a limousine bull and I'm wanting to cross that on Charolais cows and keep the heifers but we do t want rat tails.

 

[Flyingkcattle]

Thanks so much, we got one last year off a Charolais cross cow (Charolais colored) and angus bull. He was built beautifully but rat tail. My husbands family got them off commercial black cows and Charolais bull for years. We bought a limousine bull and I'm wanting to cross that on Charolais cows and keep the heifers but we dont want rat tails.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Any experience with a Charolais cow and black limousine cross? Know if it produces rat tails?

Never crossed with blk limos, but got to deal with the aftermath of crossing Charolais with red limousine. Great mommas, would kill or tree anything that got within 20yds of their babies. They are the reason I use Scourguard 3kc. So much nicer than trying to hold a slimy calf and give it Ecolizer, while its momma climbs over the tailgate of the pickup to try and save her new baby.

Didn't have rat tails then either. Just tight muscled, hard finishing cattle.