Black Angus crossed with White Shorthorn

[Willow Springs]

Anybody have any experience on what colour a person would get with this cross?? Would I get silver or blue roan??

 

[Rustler9]

Probably something that looks like a Murrey Grey. Kind of a silver, greyish color.

 

[Willow Springs]

Is that based on experience or just guessing? I know that Murray Grey are a cross between Black Angus and a White Shorthorn, but I wasn't sure if that would be the colour a person gets every time. When you cross a roan with a black you usually get a blue roan; not sure how the incomplete dominance of the white will cross with the black when the shorthorn is homozygous for the white gene.

 

[Rustler9]

It's just a guess on my part. I've seen black crossed on roan make a blue roan, I've seen black crossed on white make gey, sliver etc. I wouldn't think white Shorthorn crossed on black would make blue roan but I guess it could if the white Shorthorn has roan in it's back ground. Not an expert on genetics but I'm sure someone else can chime in.

 

[3waycross]

We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.

 

[jcarkie]

shorthorns come in so many varieties it is hard to tell what you would get. roan, paint, white, red, with black can make a mess. grey, blk roan, blue roan, red etc.................................

 

[Ryan]

Anybody have any experience on what colour a person would get with this cross?? Would I get silver or blue roan??

The amount of variety depends somewhat on if the bull is homozygous or heterozygous black. Not real sure about the spotting/roaning influence the shorthorn will have.

Ryan

 

[Stocker Steve]

We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.

Same with a red bull on a Shorthorn?

 

[3waycross]

We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.

Same with a red bull on a Shorthorn?

Steve we put a RA bull on the cows this year, so far we have 3 calves on the ground and they are all red. One heifer has a few roan hairs on her tailhead. I'll try to post the results when we get some of the crazier ones calved out.

 

[randiliana]

White Shorthorns are HOMOZYGOUS for the roan gene. The roan gene is an incompletely dominant gene which means that it displays itself differently when Homo and when Hetero.

Essentially breeding a white shorthorn to a black angus will give you some shade of blue roan. Could be almost black, could be almost white, but there should be some roan somewhere.

RR = White
Rr = roan
rr = solid colored

I'm not real sure how the Murray Grey breed got started from a white Shorthorn cow, unless, there was some sort of mutation, because from everything I have ever found about the roan gene says that a white animal (in the Shorthorn breed) is homo for the roan gene, and I have never seen anything that suggests the Shorthorn breed carrying the dilution gene which is what causes the grey in the Murray Grey breed.

 

[3waycross]

White Shorthorns are HOMOZYGOUS for the roan gene. The roan gene is an incompletely dominant gene which means that it displays itself differently when Homo and when Hetero.

Essentially breeding a white shorthorn to a black angus will give you some shade of blue roan. Could be almost black, could be almost white, but there should be some roan somewhere.

RR = White
Rr = roan
rr = solid colored

I'm not real sure how the Murray Grey breed got started from a white Shorthorn cow, unless, there was some sort of mutation, because from everything I have ever found about the roan gene says that a white animal (in the Shorthorn breed) is homo for the roan gene, and I have never seen anything that suggests the Shorthorn breed carrying the dilution gene which is what causes the grey in the Murray Grey breed.

Like i said we bred a hetero blk Gelbvieh bull to a white Shorthorn cow and one year we got a blk heifer with a white belly. She does not have any visible roan hair the colors are very distinctly delineated. That was 3 yrs ago can't remember what 2 yrs ago looked like but last years calf with the same bull produced a white calf with paint markings kinda roan looking. I'll check the records for 2 yrs ago.

She is bred to a registered RA bull this yr. I have no doubt it will be red but will it be red roan?

 

[randiliana]

Interesting, I can honestly say, that I have never had any experience with a white shorthorn, the one and only one we ever had, came up dry as a yearling. Just relating what info I have come across on the roan gene. And, I have found that 'they' don't know everything yet, especially about the spotting genes....

 

[3waycross]

Randi
Looked up the info on the White cows calf from 2 yrs ago. It is a Red Brockle faced heifer that looks just like a hereford. She doesn't have a roan hair on her body. In fact if you go to my photo albumn on Cattle today there is a picture of her there.
Looking at the records the white cow is out of a Blue roan cow and a red and white bull. I am starting to think Shorthorns need their own set of rules for color genetics. However she is actually breeding pretty true for color. When bred to a Blk/Red carrier bull she produced 2 red calves and one blk one. Correct me if I am wrong but under normal circumstances if they had one more calf together odds are it would also be Red.
I also found out that her first two calves were out of her full brother(don't ask) it was before my time. But interestingly enuf they were both stillborn. Obviously some real bad genetic JUJU there.

 

[cmf1]

I don't presume to have a clue about color genes and don't know if this'll even help, but here goes.
I bred a red roan shorty bull to :
3 black super baldies (Angus x f-1 tigerstripes)
2 f-1 tigerstripes (Hereford x Brahma)
1 whitefaced brindle
1 Hereford type commercial

So far:
1 off of black baldy- solid red w/1 small white spot on belly- female
1 off of f-1 tiger - red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots
1 off of hereford type commercial- red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots

The red color on all the calves is deep red like the shorty bull, more mahogany than hereford red.
I'll post the rest as they come.

 

[randiliana]

3way, is she white, white, or just a very light roan? If she's out of a roan cow and a spotted bull then she is not homo roan, but hetero roan, that would be why you get the solid colored calves out of her.

Her dam was Rr and her sire was rr and ss (recessive spotting)

She is Rr and Ss (carries the spotting gene) so, she has a 50% chance of having a roan calf, and depending on what bull she is bred to she can also throw spotted calves, and as you found out she can have roan AND spotted calves. Just depends on what genes are passed on by the parents.

As for red/black, that depends somewhat on her base color, is it black or red. For sure she is carrying the red gene, even if she is black.

If she is Ee and you breed her to an Ee bull (E is black, e is red)

you can get
EE - Homo black (25%)
Ee - Hetero black (50%)
ee - red (25%)

If she is ee and you breed her Ee

you can get
Ee - hetero black(50%)
ee - red(50%)

 

[randiliana]

I don't presume to have a clue about color genes and don't know if this'll even help, but here goes.
I bred a red roan shorty bull to :
3 black super baldies (Angus x f-1 tigerstripes)
2 f-1 tigerstripes (Hereford x Brahma)
1 whitefaced brindle
1 Hereford type commercial

So far:
1 off of black baldy- solid red w/1 small white spot on belly- female
1 off of f-1 tiger - red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots
1 off of hereford type commercial- red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots

The red color on all the calves is deep red like the shorty bull, more mahogany than hereford red.
I'll post the rest as they come.

If you want, I could try to explain what you're getting, but it would be very long winded.

 

[3waycross]

Randi

She is definately WHITE/WHITE. That's what's kinda funny. Last years calf was really not roan. He was white with red splashed on him. She's bred pure RA this year so I guess we'll se what we get.

I am not good at posting pics here but if I can i will try to post a couple of pics of her and her dtrs.

One thing is for sure the Shorthorn/Gelbvieh cross makes for some darned fine calves and with those shortie mommas they grow like crazy. Nice dispositions too.

 

[randiliana]

She sounds like an interesting cow!!

Would love to see some pics of her.

 

[mnmtranching]

This is interesting. Back in the late seventies I had white shorthorns and a purebred Black Angus bull. It was a fun mix and you are all right I don't recall having 2 quite the same. Most were mostly black with various amount of white. From white bellies, hooves, to blotchy roan type patterns. Not a good mix in today,s US cattle markets.

 

[Australian]

There's a breeder here in Australia that breeds them as a composite. He calls them Coota Park Blue es (or something like that) Can't see the sense in doing that. They would be ok females to cross another breed over but question the value of the bulls.
Colin