Black Angus crossed with White Shorthorn

Help Support CattleToday:

OP
W

Willow Springs

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
212
Reaction score
1
Location
North of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Is that based on experience or just guessing? I know that Murray Grey are a cross between Black Angus and a White Shorthorn, but I wasn't sure if that would be the colour a person gets every time. When you cross a roan with a black you usually get a blue roan; not sure how the incomplete dominance of the white will cross with the black when the shorthorn is homozygous for the white gene.
 

Rustler9

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2004
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern Middle Tennessee
It's just a guess on my part. I've seen black crossed on roan make a blue roan, I've seen black crossed on white make gey, sliver etc. I wouldn't think white Shorthorn crossed on black would make blue roan but I guess it could if the white Shorthorn has roan in it's back ground. Not an expert on genetics but I'm sure someone else can chime in.
 

3waycross

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
14,462
Reaction score
16
Location
Colorado
We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.
 

jcarkie

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
1,048
Reaction score
0
Location
arkansas
shorthorns come in so many varieties it is hard to tell what you would get. roan, paint, white, red, with black can make a mess. grey, blk roan, blue roan, red etc.................................
 

Ryan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
2,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Texas
Willow Springs":3edzopno said:
Anybody have any experience on what colour a person would get with this cross?? Would I get silver or blue roan??

The amount of variety depends somewhat on if the bull is homozygous or heterozygous black. Not real sure about the spotting/roaning influence the shorthorn will have.

Ryan
 

Stocker Steve

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
10,911
Reaction score
375
Location
Central Minnesota
3waycross":3vdn5jh7 said:
We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.

Same with a red bull on a Shorthorn?
 

3waycross

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
14,462
Reaction score
16
Location
Colorado
Stocker Steve":3ukvteus said:
3waycross":3ukvteus said:
We bred an admittedly Hetero blk bull to a White shorthorn cow last year and got a red paint roan calf out of the deal. the year before the same cow and bull produced a blk heifer with a white belly.

I think you could breed a blk bull to a Shorthorn cow and get darned near any color of the rainbow.

Same with a red bull on a Shorthorn?


Steve we put a RA bull on the cows this year, so far we have 3 calves on the ground and they are all red. One heifer has a few roan hairs on her tailhead. I'll try to post the results when we get some of the crazier ones calved out.
 

randiliana

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
4,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
White Shorthorns are HOMOZYGOUS for the roan gene. The roan gene is an incompletely dominant gene which means that it displays itself differently when Homo and when Hetero.

Essentially breeding a white shorthorn to a black angus will give you some shade of blue roan. Could be almost black, could be almost white, but there should be some roan somewhere.

RR = White
Rr = roan
rr = solid colored

I'm not real sure how the Murray Grey breed got started from a white Shorthorn cow, unless, there was some sort of mutation, because from everything I have ever found about the roan gene says that a white animal (in the Shorthorn breed) is homo for the roan gene, and I have never seen anything that suggests the Shorthorn breed carrying the dilution gene which is what causes the grey in the Murray Grey breed.
 

3waycross

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
14,462
Reaction score
16
Location
Colorado
randiliana":3rl62712 said:
White Shorthorns are HOMOZYGOUS for the roan gene. The roan gene is an incompletely dominant gene which means that it displays itself differently when Homo and when Hetero.

Essentially breeding a white shorthorn to a black angus will give you some shade of blue roan. Could be almost black, could be almost white, but there should be some roan somewhere.

RR = White
Rr = roan
rr = solid colored

I'm not real sure how the Murray Grey breed got started from a white Shorthorn cow, unless, there was some sort of mutation, because from everything I have ever found about the roan gene says that a white animal (in the Shorthorn breed) is homo for the roan gene, and I have never seen anything that suggests the Shorthorn breed carrying the dilution gene which is what causes the grey in the Murray Grey breed.

Like i said we bred a hetero blk Gelbvieh bull to a white Shorthorn cow and one year we got a blk heifer with a white belly. She does not have any visible roan hair the colors are very distinctly delineated. That was 3 yrs ago can't remember what 2 yrs ago looked like but last years calf with the same bull produced a white calf with paint markings kinda roan looking. I'll check the records for 2 yrs ago.

She is bred to a registered RA bull this yr. I have no doubt it will be red but will it be red roan?
 

randiliana

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
4,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Interesting, I can honestly say, that I have never had any experience with a white shorthorn, the one and only one we ever had, came up dry as a yearling. Just relating what info I have come across on the roan gene. And, I have found that 'they' don't know everything yet, especially about the spotting genes....
 

3waycross

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
14,462
Reaction score
16
Location
Colorado
Randi
Looked up the info on the White cows calf from 2 yrs ago. It is a Red Brockle faced heifer that looks just like a hereford. She doesn't have a roan hair on her body. In fact if you go to my photo albumn on Cattle today there is a picture of her there.
Looking at the records the white cow is out of a Blue roan cow and a red and white bull. I am starting to think Shorthorns need their own set of rules for color genetics. However she is actually breeding pretty true for color. When bred to a Blk/Red carrier bull she produced 2 red calves and one blk one. Correct me if I am wrong but under normal circumstances if they had one more calf together odds are it would also be Red.
I also found out that her first two calves were out of her full brother(don't ask) it was before my time. But interestingly enuf they were both stillborn. Obviously some real bad genetic JUJU there.
 

cmf1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
962
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Louisiana
I don't presume to have a clue about color genes and don't know if this'll even help, but here goes.
I bred a red roan shorty bull to :
3 black super baldies (Angus x f-1 tigerstripes)
2 f-1 tigerstripes (Hereford x Brahma)
1 whitefaced brindle
1 Hereford type commercial

So far:
1 off of black baldy- solid red w/1 small white spot on belly- female
1 off of f-1 tiger - red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots
1 off of hereford type commercial- red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots

The red color on all the calves is deep red like the shorty bull, more mahogany than hereford red.
I'll post the rest as they come.
 

randiliana

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
4,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
3way, is she white, white, or just a very light roan? If she's out of a roan cow and a spotted bull then she is not homo roan, but hetero roan, that would be why you get the solid colored calves out of her.

Her dam was Rr and her sire was rr and ss (recessive spotting)

She is Rr and Ss (carries the spotting gene) so, she has a 50% chance of having a roan calf, and depending on what bull she is bred to she can also throw spotted calves, and as you found out she can have roan AND spotted calves. Just depends on what genes are passed on by the parents.

As for red/black, that depends somewhat on her base color, is it black or red. For sure she is carrying the red gene, even if she is black.

If she is Ee and you breed her to an Ee bull (E is black, e is red)

you can get
EE - Homo black (25%)
Ee - Hetero black (50%)
ee - red (25%)

If she is ee and you breed her Ee

you can get
Ee - hetero black(50%)
ee - red(50%)
 

randiliana

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
4,807
Reaction score
0
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
cmf1":20o6fbj7 said:
I don't presume to have a clue about color genes and don't know if this'll even help, but here goes.
I bred a red roan shorty bull to :
3 black super baldies (Angus x f-1 tigerstripes)
2 f-1 tigerstripes (Hereford x Brahma)
1 whitefaced brindle
1 Hereford type commercial

So far:
1 off of black baldy- solid red w/1 small white spot on belly- female
1 off of f-1 tiger - red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots
1 off of hereford type commercial- red baldy bull calf, more white on legs and belly, very little roaning in very few spots

The red color on all the calves is deep red like the shorty bull, more mahogany than hereford red.
I'll post the rest as they come.

If you want, I could try to explain what you're getting, but it would be very long winded.
 

3waycross

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
14,462
Reaction score
16
Location
Colorado
Randi

She is definately WHITE/WHITE. That's what's kinda funny. Last years calf was really not roan. He was white with red splashed on him. She's bred pure RA this year so I guess we'll se what we get.

I am not good at posting pics here but if I can i will try to post a couple of pics of her and her dtrs.

One thing is for sure the Shorthorn/Gelbvieh cross makes for some darned fine calves and with those shortie mommas they grow like crazy. Nice dispositions too.
 

mnmtranching

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
5,061
Reaction score
0
Location
MN
This is interesting. Back in the late seventies I had white shorthorns and a purebred Black Angus bull. It was a fun mix and you are all right I don't recall having 2 quite the same. Most were mostly black with various amount of white. From white bellies, hooves, to blotchy roan type patterns. Not a good mix in today,s US cattle markets. :(
 

Latest posts

Top