Black Angus CC&7
- Thread starter redcowsrule33
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Oldtimer
Well-known member
TSR":g14pvx5i said:
He's up to -34 $EN now- and a 7.5 frame bull ... Another of the $50,000 dollar, high emotion, commotion promotion "extreme" bulls that could wreck a cow herd at superfast speed... Never jumped a cow- and has had problems with fertility/semen :???: ...
Not for me either...
jscunn
Well-known member
OT,
At least you got something right, he is a -34$EN bull.. Congrats.
BTW he is a FS 7 (actually 6.8) bull, (strike one)
bred cows naturally at hoover and sydgen. (strike 2)
Produced loads of semen from the time he walked in the door at Origen as a yearling until he got injured. Now is producing again. (strike 3)
Sold for less than $40,000 (strike 4...)
And if all his yearlings look like the ones I have seen he will be selling plenty of semen for everyone else.. Best set of yearling heifers I have seen in a long while, tons of rib and depth of flank, wide topped with just the right amount of muscle..
At least you got something right, he is a -34$EN bull.. Congrats.
BTW he is a FS 7 (actually 6.8) bull, (strike one)
bred cows naturally at hoover and sydgen. (strike 2)
Produced loads of semen from the time he walked in the door at Origen as a yearling until he got injured. Now is producing again. (strike 3)
Sold for less than $40,000 (strike 4...)
And if all his yearlings look like the ones I have seen he will be selling plenty of semen for everyone else.. Best set of yearling heifers I have seen in a long while, tons of rib and depth of flank, wide topped with just the right amount of muscle..
Oldtimer
Well-known member
jscunn":2fej7580 said:
So how come ABS lists him as a 7 frame- and his mature height at 61 inches (which on the frame score sheets I have is above 7 frame--actually 7.5 because 62 inchs is 8 frame)....Those folks wouldn't fib to us in their use of emotion and commotion promotion- would they :???:
http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus. ... =237AN1941
Are you telling me they ran him in a commercial herd type situation with multiple bulls- and he proved himself :???:
What was his injury that made his semen bad?
$40,000- $50,000- whatever-(actually $39,000 for 1/2 interest--which makes him a $78,000 bull )-- was it even a real money sale or angus funny money exchange? To me he wouldn't be worth more than a couple thousand $ to turn out with some commercial cows as a terminal bull...
Any bull that you can't keep heifers from ( and there is no way I would/could even look at any bull with a 53 milk EPD- a huge minus energy $ number (even less than his + WN S) for raising heifers to keep in this country)... Just reading on another site about the wreck some folks are running into with some cattle they bought out of the droughted out areas- that now they've gotten up in the northern states and having to fend for themselves and are looking awful rough and being questioned if they can make the winter...Reminds me of how a few good years can get folks to breeding for extremes--- looking for a way to add a few lbs of weaning weight- which often comes back to bite them on the arse when you get several years of tough grazing conditions that will/do return...
Breeding for extremes will wreck a cowherd faster than anything else..
Like was said- to me he is good for nothing more than a terminal sire-- and in my opinion if thats the intent-- you are better off using one of the continental sires on some good maternal bred angus cows- and take advantage of the heterosis...
jscunn- maybe for your area and your management- he is the cats meow- but won't work here...Florida is a lot different from the "Little Siberia" Hi-line area of Montana...To give you an example- yesterday I moved cows from summer pasture (where they were grazing down thru about 4-6 inches of snow- and sucking up water thru the slush on a creek spring still partially open) to the riverbottom hay meadows - where they will graze until the snow won't allow them anymore...Today it blizzarded all day-- snow, drifting, 40 mph winds,15 degree temps...Tonight it has quit snowing and blowing- but the temp is plummeting fast- down to 2 Below now- on its way to a predicted 10 Below...
The type of heifers something like he'd make couldn't/wouldn't survive here unless you owned a grain elevator/feed plant.... But thats whats great about the angus breed is that there is a wide variety to fit all areas, management types, and owner preferences.....
jscunn
Well-known member
First of all I never trust the good folks at ABS, too many times I have seen them have errors on SC, mt wt, mt ht. I am going off the frame score that everyone takes and that is at one year of age.
As far as the milk EPD is concerned, 53 is awful high and would worry me if I hadnt seen multiple cattle of his. I have seen a milking daughters and they certainly werent the thinnest in the group they were running with.
Here in the east we dont normally run bulls in multiple sire groups, so that particular comment has no validity. I told you he bred cows naturally at both the owners places. Who cares if he ran in a multiple sire group setting, it isnt normal here in the east.
I dont use him because of the extreme EPDs, I use him for the phenotype and docility he brings to the table. He earned that milk EPD, thru his first daughters, before they were turned in it was around 30, so it has gone up +23 with his first daughters calves coming in. I have yet to find one that I didnt like, certainly dont look very hard doing.
To each his own, I dont care if you dont use him. I just didnt want the truth to get bent too far. I probably would have let it all slide until you said he never bred cows naturally, wanted everyone to know the truth..
As far as the milk EPD is concerned, 53 is awful high and would worry me if I hadnt seen multiple cattle of his. I have seen a milking daughters and they certainly werent the thinnest in the group they were running with.
Here in the east we dont normally run bulls in multiple sire groups, so that particular comment has no validity. I told you he bred cows naturally at both the owners places. Who cares if he ran in a multiple sire group setting, it isnt normal here in the east.
I dont use him because of the extreme EPDs, I use him for the phenotype and docility he brings to the table. He earned that milk EPD, thru his first daughters, before they were turned in it was around 30, so it has gone up +23 with his first daughters calves coming in. I have yet to find one that I didnt like, certainly dont look very hard doing.
To each his own, I dont care if you dont use him. I just didnt want the truth to get bent too far. I probably would have let it all slide until you said he never bred cows naturally, wanted everyone to know the truth..
Oldtimer
Well-known member
jscunn":7ivs23hc said:
Again- my personal opinion only... I don't think any untested bull is worth $40-50 K... Nor is his semen worth anything to me until he is tested and proven...The original idea behind AI was for the bull studs to find the best proven sires in the country and market them ... Over the years now it has turned into a speculating high dollar gamble where every bull pimp in the country puts on their dog and pony show to convince customers that their bull is proven - and better-no matter whether he has been or not...(Which CC&7 couldn't have been if his milk jumped +23 ) And what is most comical is that most the bulls being marketed are all the same essential bloodlines- New Design, Fame/Fortune, Bando, Precision just jumbled around into a different configuration -- with everyone proclaiming their configuration is the best (Has to be- they paid $50,000+ for him :???: ;-) )
The reason I say ran in a multiple sire herd is to test their libido- and see if they have any to pass on to their offspring... Because just the opposite of what you say about single sire pastures- most up here are run in multiple sire pastures... I've seen several times where multiple bulls were put in a pasture- and next spring you have the majority of calves sired by one or two sires that apparently were out working- and few by the others that must have decided eating or laying around the water hole was more important...Really shows up when you run different breeds- like angus and hereford bulls together...
That is the reason some breeders go and buy back their bulls after several years of running in commercial or small registered herds and they have proven what they can do...
Here is a picture of a bull that has proof of his libido.. He didn't get those broken down cauliflower ears just laying around a waterhole- or standing in some bull stud private stall...Ain't pretty- but definitely shows he has some masculinity...
http://www.universalsemensales.com/deta ... gus_id=373
jscunn
Well-known member
OT,
I dont disagree with you on the bull speculation and you dont have to worry about me spending that kind of money on a bull proven or otherwise..
In my experience, we have had daughters of Connection (sire), Corona (MGS), and Neutron (MGGS) we wont have any problems with that milk epd.. Havent had hardly any of those cows fall out due to fertility. But then again we run single sire pastures so I guess 84 % calved in the first 21 days doesnt impress you much either.
Black Cedar is an impressive looking bull, but I wont use him because of his 11 milk EPD. I dont want to waste 2 yrs raising a daughter for her to milk like a mouse..
I dont disagree with you on the bull speculation and you dont have to worry about me spending that kind of money on a bull proven or otherwise..
In my experience, we have had daughters of Connection (sire), Corona (MGS), and Neutron (MGGS) we wont have any problems with that milk epd.. Havent had hardly any of those cows fall out due to fertility. But then again we run single sire pastures so I guess 84 % calved in the first 21 days doesnt impress you much either.
Black Cedar is an impressive looking bull, but I wont use him because of his 11 milk EPD. I dont want to waste 2 yrs raising a daughter for her to milk like a mouse..
JHH
Well-known member
Like I said before. I have seen some of his daughters and they are to extreme for just fescue and mineral around here. They may work for someone else but wont here for me or my buddy.
jscunn
Well-known member
JHH,
The ones I saw were on fescue and minerals too..
The ones I saw were on fescue and minerals too..
