Black and Red Angus

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Anonymous

My question is with regard to marketing angus beef. Without regard to color both reds and blacks exhibit the same fundimental characteristics of the angus breed. So why don't both reds and blacks qualify as "Angus" beef? To my understanding the "Certified Angus Beef" program is diluted to cattle just having a 51% of it's colr being black. This is strange. One could have a black Limousine and it pass as "Ceritified Angus Beef", but a register red angus can not since it is red. Can someone help clarify this?
 

Jake

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It's simple they are recognized as two seperate breeds here in the states and have different programs that the market through. A black limousin truly doesn't qualify to my understanding due to the fact that it has only 3/8 or so black angus blood. Has to be 51% black angus color.
 

la4angus

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This was just eMailed to me from CAB

First to be evaluated, cattle must be 51% or more black hided

Middle Choice or higher marbling
Medium to Fine marbling texture
YG 3.9 or leaner
A maturity
Moderate or greater muscling
No neck hump over 2"
No blood splashes
No dark cutters
 
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Anonymous

ghulsey":2ekrqxuf said:
My question is with regard to marketing angus beef. Without regard to color both reds and blacks exhibit the same fundimental characteristics of the angus breed. So why don't both reds and blacks qualify as "Angus" beef? To my understanding the "Certified Angus Beef" program is diluted to cattle just having a 51% of it's colr being black. This is strange. One could have a black Limousine and it pass as "Ceritified Angus Beef", but a register red angus can not since it is red. Can someone help clarify this?

As I happen to be crusing by on the "superhighway" I will try to clarify.
Jake is right in that the Red Angus Association is separate and that's why those cattle were never set up to be part of CAB, which is owned by the American Angus Association. But beef from both types can rightly be called "Angus" beef, and is sold as such every day in many packer programs.

CAB was not set up for just a few purebred producers, but for their bull customers. So the best we could do in 1978 was to allow the crossbred Angus-type cattle in (more than half black hide) for screening to see if they make the 8 carcass specs. Only 8% of all cattle do. In Iowa tests, black cattle less than 25% Angus made 7% CAB, but those 75% or more Angus made 39%. This program is market driven. If you want to get in on more of the $50 million in premiums for CAB you would use above average marbling ANGUS bulls. If the odd black Limmy gets in, it shows they can retain Angus carcass caracteristics along with that black hide. But it is no big deal to a market-driven program. Hope that helps put it in perspective.
 

amazed

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ssuther":lq6haql8 said:
ghulsey":lq6haql8 said:
My question is with regard to marketing angus beef. Without regard to color both reds and blacks exhibit the same fundimental characteristics of the angus breed. So why don't both reds and blacks qualify as "Angus" beef? To my understanding the "Certified Angus Beef" program is diluted to cattle just having a 51% of it's colr being black. This is strange. One could have a black Limousine and it pass as "Ceritified Angus Beef", but a register red angus can not since it is red. Can someone help clarify this?

As I happen to be crusing by on the "superhighway" I will try to clarify.
Jake is right in that the Red Angus Association is separate and that's why those cattle were never set up to be part of CAB, which is owned by the American Angus Association. But beef from both types can rightly be called "Angus" beef, and is sold as such every day in many packer programs.

CAB was not set up for just a few purebred producers, but for their bull customers. So the best we could do in 1978 was to allow the crossbred Angus-type cattle in (more than half black hide) for screening to see if they make the 8 carcass specs. Only 8% of all cattle do. In Iowa tests, black cattle less than 25% Angus made 7% CAB, but those 75% or more Angus made 39%. This program is market driven. If you want to get in on more of the $50 million in premiums for CAB you would use above average marbling ANGUS bulls. If the odd black Limmy gets in, it shows they can retain Angus carcass caracteristics along with that black hide. But it is no big deal to a market-driven program. Hope that helps put it in perspective.

Actually there is more than just the odd Limmy that qualifies. There are piles of black hided cattle of all breeds. Sim, Maines, Limo, CAB is a good program that helps sell beef of many breeds to the consumer.
 
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Anonymous

How do the packers tell when they are grading the carcass whether it had a 51% or greater black hide? I know we had calves that had no black on the whatsoever grade CAB. (They were half angus though.) Just something I was wondering.
 

Frankie

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Anonymous":18h6tvwe said:
How do the packers tell when they are grading the carcass whether it had a 51% or greater black hide? I know we had calves that had no black on the whatsoever grade CAB. (They were half angus though.) Just something I was wondering.

In large beef packing plants they have separate CAB lines. Cattle that qualify for CAB by phenotype are branded with, I think, an A (might be a C) and then they go down a CAB line. From removing the hide to fabrication, they are handled seperately from other beef. If the graders decide they don't qualify for CAB, they're shifted over to the commodity beef lines.

I'm having a hard time understanding how you can be using either Angus bulls or Angus cows and your calves don't have any black "whatsoever." What is the other half of the combination?

From the USDA site:

"3. QUALITY ASSURANCE PROVISIONS

3.1 Genotype. Compliance with genotypic requirements shall be determined and controlled through a Livestock and Seed Division approved quality management program.

3.2 Phenotype. Three options are available to ensure that live animals comply with the specified requirements. They are (1) continuous USDA supervision, (2) ante-mortem lot inspection, and (3) program monitoring. Under the first two options USDA personnel shall certify that the animals meet the specified requirements prior to slaughter. Procedures for these two options shall be developed on an individual plant basis and shall be approved by the local Meat Grading and Certification Branch (MGCB) area office. Under option 3, the procedures described in 3.2.1 shall be followed."

Here's a link to the entire USDA requirements:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm
 
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Anonymous

I'm having a hard time understanding how you can be using either Angus bulls or Angus cows and your calves don't have any black "whatsoever." What is the other half of the combination?
We have an angus bull bred to a few red simmentals from our herd. We are getting about 50% black calves and about 50% tan/brown color with white on the faces. We've bred some of these tan/brown heifers back to angus and are still getting a 50/50 split on color.
 

dun

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The only way I can see this working is if the bull isn't a real Angus, but a black something , or a black Angus that is a red carrier.

dun


Anonymous":sfyfxklc said:
I'm having a hard time understanding how you can be using either Angus bulls or Angus cows and your calves don't have any black "whatsoever." What is the other half of the combination?
We have an angus bull bred to a few red simmentals from our herd. We are getting about 50% black calves and about 50% tan/brown color with white on the faces. We've bred some of these tan/brown heifers back to angus and are still getting a 50/50 split on color.
 
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Anonymous

The bull was a register black angus bull, actually we've had several registered angus bulls bred to the same cows and had the same results. I can't be positive that the cows are simmentals, but I am almost sure they are. We have some heifers that are half angus and a fourth of hereford and simmental. They are throwing a 50/50 split of black and brown calves when bred back to angus. There are some 3/4 angus calves that aren't black. I don't know why the calves aren't all black, but they aren't. Beats me!
 

Jake

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Diluter genes... Simmentals will throw rats out of an angus bull sometimes too. Those calves will probably grow up to be more black than you think.
 

sillco

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Anonymous":6kyangn0 said:
The bull was a register black angus bull, actually we've had several registered angus bulls bred to the same cows and had the same results. I can't be positive that the cows are simmentals, but I am almost sure they are. We have some heifers that are half angus and a fourth of hereford and simmental. They are throwing a 50/50 split of black and brown calves when bred back to angus. There are some 3/4 angus calves that aren't black. I don't know why the calves aren't all black, but they aren't. Beats me!

Interesting. The rules call for black hide, not black hair. Did your calves have black hide? I know some breeds are not black, but have black hide with black points, nose, tail and hoovles and etc.
 

jcarkie

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i have a angus char x cow, bred to an angus bull had a calf white as snow.
and the simmi's have brown and blue calves(grey) alot out of angus.
 

Beefy

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a lot of times a brownish-black calf will be jet black when it loses its baby hair.
 
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Anonymous

several years ago (maybe before seperate kill lines)I heard an operations manager at a packer say "once we peel the hide they're all black" Stir- Stir Stir:<D
 

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