birth weight

[Jake]

It wouldn't be hard to weigh that many, you have to have them all tagged for identification processes anyway. A lot of guys have a set up that they run them through a catch pen (from a pasture full of breds), sort the cow and calf, weigh/tag the calf then let the pair out on the other side of the fence into a pasture full of pairs...

 

[ollie]

How soon after birth is birth weight determined? If I happen to be around right at birth I may be able to get it..but after that mama gets her bearings, it would take the best cowboy in Texas to get that calf weighed...After a day or two I can usually get the calf separated without too much comotion and weigh it..Now are you telling me that every calf in large herds get weighed at birth? I bet you many a calf gets estimated...and if a low birth wieght is needed on a particular EPD it gets it..Am I wrong????

The American Angus Assn wants the calf weighed within 24 hours after birth. That's what we do, every one of them. Those big registered outfits AI most of their cattle so they know when the calves will be born and have the cows where the calves can be weighed. They also have several ranchands helping out. Don't kid yourself, it can be done. It's not easy, but if it's important to you, you make it happen.

IMO, yes, you're wrong in suggesting that people only report the weights that make their cattle look good.

Surely you don't suggest that mistakes don't happen on "big" ranches. I have been to national sales where from the block they announce the pedigree changes because the calf wouldn't blood type to the DAM. Do you think they got the birthdate right?

 

[Frankie]

Surely you don't suggest that mistakes don't happen on "big" ranches.

Nope, I'd never suggest mistakes don't happen on big and small ranches. I'm disagreeing with the suggestion that big breeders routinely cheat to affect their cattle's EPDs.

I have been to national sales where from the block they announce the pedigree changes because the calf wouldn't blood type to the DAM.

I'm impressed that you've been to national sales. I think it's good that they announce pedigree changes. Perhaps that was a catalog mistake and not a breeders' mistake?

Do you think they got the birthdate right?

Why not? They're two different things. The birth date is when the calf is born and the pedigree is the dam and sire that produced the calf, in case you don't understand the difference. Just because they made a mistake on dates bulls were put with cows or pulled the wrong straw of semen out of the tank (examples) doesn't mean they don't know when a calf was born. That's why we have DNA testing; to get things right.

 

[Campground Cattle]

How soon after birth is birth weight determined? If I happen to be around right at birth I may be able to get it..but after that mama gets her bearings, it would take the best cowboy in Texas to get that calf weighed...After a day or two I can usually get the calf separated without too much comotion and weigh it..Now are you telling me that every calf in large herds get weighed at birth? I bet you many a calf gets estimated...and if a low birth wieght is needed on a particular EPD it gets it..Am I wrong????

The American Angus Assn wants the calf weighed within 24 hours after birth. That's what we do, every one of them. Those big registered outfits AI most of their cattle so they know when the calves will be born and have the cows where the calves can be weighed. They also have several ranchands helping out. Don't kid yourself, it can be done. It's not easy, but if it's important to you, you make it happen.

IMO, yes, you're wrong in suggesting that people only report the weights that make their cattle look good.

Surely you don't suggest that mistakes don't happen on "big" ranches. I have been to national sales where from the block they announce the pedigree changes because the calf wouldn't blood type to the DAM. Do you think they got the birthdate right?

Ollie I convinced some of the big outfits lie and fudge the numbers to there benifit especially the ones spending the big bucks on flyers an magizine adds. I pretty convinced also there was some pretty underhanded dealings going on. Examples Angus went from stumpy legged 800 pound cattle to bulls to excess of 2000 pounds. Herefords lost the mane and gained eye pigment overnight also the list gone on.

 

[certherfbeef]

Do you think they got the birthdate right?

Why not? They're two different things. The birth date is when the calf is born and the pedigree is the dam and sire that produced the calf... doesn't mean they don't know when a calf was born.

I can't speak for Ollie but, the way I interperated his comment was...the fact that they didn't know who the dam of the calf in question is, leads me to believe that the date is incorrect as well as the dam.
They think the calf belongs to cow A which calved on date Y. But instead typed out to cow B who maybe calved on date Z.

 

[Brad B]

Hmm.. I thought estimating calf weights only happened over here. :lol:

 

[ollie]

Surely you don't suggest that mistakes don't happen on "big" ranches.

Nope, I'd never suggest mistakes don't happen on big and small ranches. I'm disagreeing with the suggestion that big breeders routinely cheat to affect their cattle's EPDs.

I have been to national sales where from the block they announce the pedigree changes because the calf wouldn't blood type to the DAM.

I'm impressed that you've been to national sales. I think it's good that they announce pedigree changes. Perhaps that was a catalog mistake and not a breeders' mistake?

Do you think they got the birthdate right?

Why not? They're two different things. The birth date is when the calf is born and the pedigree is the dam and sire that produced the calf, in case you don't understand the difference. Just because they made a mistake on dates bulls were put with cows or pulled the wrong straw of semen out of the tank (examples) doesn't mean they don't know when a calf was born. That's why we have DNA testing; to get things right.

I said the calf wouldn't blood type to the Dam . Wrong semen or wrong bull wouldn't have any effect.In case you don't know the difference it is the one that is not the bull that is the dam and they don't produce semen.
I know both kinds of purebred breeders. Those that lie and cheat and steal. I also know those that are honest. They're in every breed , I assume , unless you black breeders are so far ahead of the rest of the breeds in this area also. Maybe you guys should come out with an integrity epd.
Yes certherfbeef you are correct. If the Dam is wrong on the pedigree , I wonder if they got any of it right. I also wonder if they are crooked. I think that is reasonable. If they are people of integrity I am sure I would overlook the issue and go right on.

 

[ollie]

I'm impressed that you've been to national sales. I think it's good that they announce pedigree changes. Perhaps that was a catalog mistake and not a breeders' mistake?

I wasn't actually buying or selling , they hired me to run the shovel. Dirty job but one that must be done.

 

[rgv4]

What about the cows and bulls epd's that 70% of their calves are never registered? (Bull calves that are made into steers or heifer's that are just sold through the salebarn.) versus the cows and bulls that produce heifer's the majority of the time that the heifer's are registered? This affects the epd's.

or calves that are sold at weaning and their yearling weights are never reported, another factor.

Some breed associations are trying to get a better program for more accurate epd's, but, IMO, the only way to have accurate epd's, is to have certified people in area's that weigh and do all the reporting. Otherwise, you will still have the breeder that will just guesstimate the birth weights, weaning weights, etc. and just put down what will make their epd's look the best.

 

[Frankie]

Surely you don't suggest that mistakes don't happen on "big" ranches.

Nope, I'd never suggest mistakes don't happen on big and small ranches. I'm disagreeing with the suggestion that big breeders routinely cheat to affect their cattle's EPDs.

I have been to national sales where from the block they announce the pedigree changes because the calf wouldn't blood type to the DAM.

I'm impressed that you've been to national sales. I think it's good that they announce pedigree changes. Perhaps that was a catalog mistake and not a breeders' mistake?

Do you think they got the birthdate right?

Why not? They're two different things. The birth date is when the calf is born and the pedigree is the dam and sire that produced the calf, in case you don't understand the difference. Just because they made a mistake on dates bulls were put with cows or pulled the wrong straw of semen out of the tank (examples) doesn't mean they don't know when a calf was born. That's why we have DNA testing; to get things right.

I said the calf wouldn't blood type to the Dam . Wrong semen or wrong bull wouldn't have any effect.In case you don't know the difference it is the one that is not the bull that is the dam and they don't produce semen.
I know both kinds of purebred breeders. Those that lie and cheat and steal. I also know those that are honest. They're in every breed , I assume , unless you black breeders are so far ahead of the rest of the breeds in this area also. Maybe you guys should come out with an integrity epd.
Yes certherfbeef you are correct. If the Dam is wrong on the pedigree , I wonder if they got any of it right. I also wonder if they are crooked. I think that is reasonable. If they are people of integrity I am sure I would overlook the issue and go right on.

Was it an embryo calf? I know Angus breeders who put their embryos into the low end of their registered Angus cows, then turn the cows in with registered bulls. They get a registerable calf one way or another. When the calves are weaned, they routinely DNA test before registering. Someone probably made a mistake with paperwork. Does Ollie give the people credit for standing up at the sale and correcting any inaccurate information in the sale catalog or advertising? Noooooo. He comes up with another conspiracy theory and claims if someone makes one mistake, they can't do anything right. Then he says, well that's ok, as long as they're people of integrity!! :roll: How could they be people of integrity if they made such a mistake?

Personally, Ollie, I find it fitting that you chose to shovel .....manure, since you spend so much time spouting....manure.

 

[txag]

What about the cows and bulls epd's that 70% of their calves are never registered? (Bull calves that are made into steers or heifer's that are just sold through the salebarn.) versus the cows and bulls that produce heifer's the majority of the time that the heifer's are registered? This affects the epd's.

some breeds don't require registration to send in performance data. i send in data on any steer calf whose dam is on the herd inventory which is pretty much every one of our registered cows.

 

[ollie]

What I know isn't theory Frankie. I never claimed any conspiracy. There you go putting words in my mouth again. Your going to hurt my feelings if you keep putting me down. I really value what you think of me. I also value your unbiased experiences in the cattle business. It is people like you that I can learn so much from. Really!

 

[hillbilly]

I can tell within a pound or two the BW of any of my calves,
They all weigh between 69 and 72 no matter how big they are!!!


Hillbilly

 

[DRB]

Why wouldn't a weight within a week of birth be suitable? couldn't it be adjusted like weaning weight? It would provide one with more time to honestly weigh the calf..The day could be noted if that makes a difference....This is the first year I have tried to weigh calves and it is proving extremely difficult...

 

[KB]

All of the above discussion just serves to remind me why it's important to buy your stock from a reputable breeder (small or big doesn't matter) and someone that you trust. Whenever we are in the market for a new herdbull, we spend just as much time checking out the breeder as we do the cattle. Folks who mess with the wts (ocular estimations...haha) may do fine in the short run, but real genetic evaluation and reputation or worth more in the long run.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't believe any of them low birth weights, I want to see the calves on the ground and the bull with his work clothes on. The best thing for them papers is to put them on a roll.

 

[Muratic]

I don't believe any of them low birth weights, I want to see the calves on the ground and the bull with his work clothes on.

That's fine Caustic, but the Brown Ranch is on the up and up...no matter what you say.

The best thing for them papers is a roll.

When did you start smoking?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not the right kinda of paper I talkin the kind thats in the outhouse.
You smokin them funny cigarettes again rollin your own ;-)

 

[Muratic]

You smokin them funny cigarettes again rollin your own ;-)

Got to, can't stand you otherwise

 

[txag]

Yes we both work off ranch but we get them weighed first thing when we get home while we still have daylight.

i'm a little surprised your two ranch hands don't have this done for you :?