Best functional Simmental bull

[Fox Farms Simmentals]

In your opinion, which AI Simmental bulls are the cow makers and bull makers? I love a big broody cow. I prefer purebred Simmental, but am open to the right SimAngus bulls as well.

 

[BFE]

I've had a few Pays to Dream daughters. Older name, but still have one in the herd and lost one this summer to lightning. Both deep stout cows that make stout calves. Both nine, easy keepers on fescue alone. Maybe not as big and flashy a name, but they work here.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Bump. There are good Simmental people in here whose opinions would be welcomed.

 

[simme]

Some bulls that I consider cow makers - Built Right and Powerdrive. What do they have in common? They are old. Neither were perfect. Built Right carried the spotting gene. Powerdrive was hetero polled. But, they produced some pretty good cows. Neither have the growth numbers of modern "top" bulls.

I looked at the top ten bulls for number of simmental calves registered between 11/27/20 and 11/27/21 (those are the dates that ASA reports for their top 50 list - 1 year to 2 years back from today's date). That list should represent the bulls that the breeders expect should sire the "best" calves.

I looked at the age of those bulls at the time the calves were born. Average age of those top ten bulls when the calves were born- a little over 4 years old. About 3.5 years old at the time the cows were bred. Oldest bull on the list was 9 y/o. Youngest was a 2 y/o. Rest were 3 to 6 y/o. Three were simangus, rest purebred.

Over half of those "top 10" bulls were too young to have sired a cow that has calved and weaned a calf. My point is that many people are choosing bulls too young to be proven cow makers. That proven cow maker and bull maker status comes more as historical data - sometimes when semen is scarce.

Might need a discussion on what qualities are most desired in a top cow or top bull. Looks? Performance? Profit? Seems like sometimes those don't line up.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Old bulls..
Dream On
Black Perfector
Power Drive
Ranch Hand (under used)

new
OMF Epic (calves and yearlings) He is a spread bull...great CE with great growth and gives you a nice looking bull and heifer calves.

Executive Order - calves, yearlings and working cows

 

[Travlr]

I looked at the top ten bulls for number of simmental calves registered between 11/27/20 and 11/27/21 (those are the dates that ASA reports for their top 50 list - 1 year to 2 years back from today's date). That list should represent the bulls that the breeders expect should sire the "best" calves.

Over half of those "top 10" bulls were too young to have sired a cow that has calved and weaned a calf. My point is that many people are choosing bulls too young to be proven cow makers. That proven cow maker and bull maker status comes more as historical data - sometimes when semen is scarce.

Might need a discussion on what qualities are most desired in a top cow or top bull. Looks? Performance? Profit? Seems like sometimes those don't line up.

I begin by weeding out the popular bulls completely. Sorry to say it but registered stock tends to have very low genetic diversity compared to any kind of natural population or pre-artificial insemination. It can't be helped when there are only so many "top bulls" and they are fathering most of the bulls used as clean-up bulls... and further down the line as commercial bulls.

I've had very good luck with outliers. Especially to produce commercial replacement heifers. Since all my heifers offered for sale as replacements were from well proven cows, I stay away from "heifer bulls" too. There are a lot of bulls that have combined traits that will compliment any herd if you know what you want. The whole package, rather than a couple of high percentile traits at the expense of others.

I used to work with a vet involved with embryo transfers and flushing top cows to generate high numbers of siblings. And then some of the genetic anomalies cropped up as daughters were bred to related males. Top bulls are easy and popular, but they aren't as safe or even any better than bulls with less popular pedigrees. Registered herds are stuck with cultivating popularity for the big bucks... but commercial producers need fertile animals that last, and put pounds on the scale.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Uhh - registered herds need fertile, long lasting, pound producing females also.
You have a very biased opinion of purebred breeder's herds. Not all are alike. Yes, there are some PB breeders that are more interested in papers. Not most. I have more cows related than sires of the cows. With AI, we have a vast selection. Lots of outliers to pick from and lots of spread bulls. Not everything is painted with one wide brush.
If a bull is producing great sons, why not keep breeding to the sire - unless he is not producing great daughters. I breed every cow mated for the best female calf I can get. I don't breed for bulls. If I get good ones, great - I don't genetically breed for one.
Females is where the future is - and my money makers. Males are cash flow. All sold by October.
I am not a rarity. Good breeders are good breeders.

 

[Travlr]

Uhh - registered herds need fertile, long lasting, pound producing females also.
You have a very biased opinion of purebred breeder's herds. Not all are alike. Yes, there are some PB breeders that are more interested in papers. Not most. I have more cows related than sires of the cows. With AI, we have a vast selection. Lots of outliers to pick from and lots of spread bulls. Not everything is painted with one wide brush.
If a bull is producing great sons, why not keep breeding to the sire - unless he is not producing great daughters. I breed every cow mated for the best female calf I can get. I don't breed for bulls. If I get good ones, great - I don't genetically breed for one.
Females is where the future is - and my money makers. Males are cash flow. All sold by October.
I am not a rarity. Good breeders are good breeders.

I agree... There are some purebred breeders that understand the entire industry and play the game very well... including producing super females. So really the only quibble is with our opinions of the percentages of good breeders. You know more breeders and I respect your posts here because you understand how important the females are. But overall I'm seeing a general decline in genetic diversity and I have to say... quality. Just like anything else, the contest is between the knowledgeable few and the ignorant many.