Where or who did you buy those 41 broke mouth cows from? Why didn't that person or entity just sell them at the sale barn for $41k, their standing weight worth.
Best Cattle Crosses For Unassisted Calving
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Dave
Well-known member
I did buy them at the sale yard over a period of about 6 weeks. During that same period I bought another 50 head or so of bred cows for B. He mainly wanted full mouth cows so they cost a little more.
Dave
Well-known member
I made more than a reasonable return. A lot more.
If you get the same money for cattle that have been worked as people are getting for unworked ones you need to find a different market to sell through.
So I'm still a bit confused...you were basically buying the broken mouths for lets say $800. individually and then sold 33 of them as a group for almost 34k. Where was the advantage...was that a seasonal sale barn thing of a grouping sale thing...whereby you can get more money in return.
Oh, i think i know what you were saying...after the profit from B sales...those broke mouth cattle costs were lower. Correct?
Travlr
Well-known member
Didn't he say that he calved the 41 out and retained the 41 calves... and sold the 33 cows for almost as much as he bought the original 41?
That's profit in my book.
Dave
Well-known member
I paid an average of right about $850 a cow. A few cost me $1,000. The lowest price was $725. The kill cow market has gone up combined with the fact that the cows put on weight. Most of the cows were one bid above kill price. I would have sold all 41 but this is rangeland and there are 7 pairs still MIA. We (B and I) sold what was caught on the first sweep. B always says it is a thinning, not a clear cut. Two are out with another neighbor's cows. They have been seen there. I will get those back when he gathers. I have a steer of his. Five are still where the group spent the summer. Cowboys were going to ride that again yesterday. I haven't heard if they caught any of mine. Some of those cows might be out into neighbor's pastures. Everything is branded so once they get gathered they will get sorted off and come home. And to make the numbers right there is one cow here. She was the last one to calf and had twins. She stayed here for the summer on milder range. We figured there was more up side to letting those young twins stay on the cow a while longer. So she didn't get shipped when the other cows went to the plant.
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rocfarm
Well-known member
Sounds like a good model. But time, labor, equipment depreciation also have to be added in
. Still looks to be worth it, though. I've seen and heard quite a few examples of this kind of model. It must work at least some of the time. If cattle go south with the stock market, it could get interesting, though.
Hope the predictions of high prices next year hold true.
Hope I can hold on to my herd long enough to get spring rains. Can't believe it's already dry again in central Texas.
Dave
Well-known member
It works pretty much all the time. In the last 30 years the only time it wouldn't work was 2014 when cattle were sky high. Any kind of bred cow was costing a fortune. Time and labor? That is what the profit at the end pays. I am retired. What am I going to do sit and watch soap operas? Having things to do is much more important to me. What little equipment that gets used is worth more now than when I bought it, so no depreciation.Sounds like a good model. But time, labor, equipment depreciation also have to be added in
I've seen and heard quite a few examples of this kind of model. It must work at least some of the time. If cattle go south with the stock market, it could get interesting, though.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
rocfarm
Well-known member
Never heard anyone argue that there is no depreciation on the equipment before. Can't figure out if that one can pass muster, even with the weird pandemic situation. Surely things will have to go back to normal once they let the stock market crash to finally control inflation…
But if my current model shows no profit within in a few years, I might try this one.
Dave
Well-known member
One thing is I use very little equipment. Simply put equipment doesn't make me money, cows do. The feed truck is a 1997 Ford F350 flat bed. Not much there to depreciate. The loader tractor I use to load hay on the truck is a 1990 MF. Every other day I load 2 bales on the truck. Drive out in the field and flake off one day a day. That is my equipment use for about 70-80 days. They get parked the rest of the year.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Agree. I use a 2003 Ford F150 worth only 3000$. Searched for 6 months on Craigslist to find a tractor at a heavy discount and got a 33% discount on a machine with only 58 hours and still under warranty. The dealership really didn't like that at all, though. Made me wait for 2 1/2 weeks for a 5 minute, simple fix.
Leaving things parked unless absolutely needed is the only way to go. Remembering the cattle work for you and are not pets is also important. Seems like allowing their condition to fluctuate within a range that maintains production but doesn't drive up feed costs is also advisable, according to many more experienced folks.
As of August, I could also sell my equipment for more than I paid for it, but there were still maintenance costs of about 250$, and those are going up. Also, things always seem to break here or there, which can eat your profits. And fuel was expensive over the summer, so if you are traveling to and from the farm, that adds up.
I'm hoping no hay feeding is going to make me very profitable, as it seems to be a major expense for most people.
But surely things can't go on like this. All equipment depreciates at some point.
I'd imagine you know how to look properly at broke-mouth cows, a skill I'm hoping to develop. Seems there's money to be made if your discretion and timing skills are good.
Thanks to everyone in this thread for the description of your operations. It definitely gives me a chance to see what options are available in this business.
Hoping I'm not bumping an old thread, but wanted to revive this as I'm curious myself:
What ARE the best crosses for unassisted calving?
Seemed like there was talk of breeding an Angus bull to Corriente cows - Is that still the consensus?
What ARE the best crosses for unassisted calving?
Seemed like there was talk of breeding an Angus bull to Corriente cows - Is that still the consensus?
Dave
Well-known member
I seriously doubt there was a consensus on that. And I know that here you will take a serious beating at the sale barn with that cross. Plus slower growth which will also affect your bottom line.
Agreed. Seemed to me it might be a regional thing? A lot of the pro-Corriente stuff seemed to "Work" for producers in the SE US, selling 1-6 calves at a time.
In my neck of the woods (Alberta) the auctions want full loads. If you're not bringing in a whole 50,000lbs, your calves are discounted. And if they aren't black, they also seem to be discounted.
Having said all of that, I'd be really curious to run numbers on a "Fire and forget" range cow that would do well up north:
-- Survive cold winters with 4+ months of snow.
-- Survive hot summers with low water.
-- Produce a calf unassisted.
-- Calf will gain some weight.
Maybe the corriente-cross calves (or whatever mongrel cross we think up) take a hit at the sale barn. But when the cows cost mostly-nothing when compared to expensive purebred black angus, and the inputs are "Nothing", is it possible that the mogrel calves would be more profitable vs the fancy stuff?
In my neck of the woods (Alberta) the auctions want full loads. If you're not bringing in a whole 50,000lbs, your calves are discounted. And if they aren't black, they also seem to be discounted.
Having said all of that, I'd be really curious to run numbers on a "Fire and forget" range cow that would do well up north:
-- Survive cold winters with 4+ months of snow.
-- Survive hot summers with low water.
-- Produce a calf unassisted.
-- Calf will gain some weight.
Maybe the corriente-cross calves (or whatever mongrel cross we think up) take a hit at the sale barn. But when the cows cost mostly-nothing when compared to expensive purebred black angus, and the inputs are "Nothing", is it possible that the mogrel calves would be more profitable vs the fancy stuff?
Travlr
Well-known member
I think you're right about corriente being more economically viable on the southern states. In Arkansas we were looking at 11/1300 pound cows raising a 500+ pound calf, and in South Dakota we were looking at 14/1600 pound cows raising a 600 pound calf... mainly because the big cows did better in the cold and the lighter cows did better in the heat.
I just don't see corrientes weathering northern climes well. I hear longhorns can take some serious cold and short feed, so maybe they'd work, but to make a decent calf you'd have to get consistent color (black [yuck]) and some real meat on the bones. The big question becomes what bull to use that will overcome the downsides.
It is 100% DEFINITE that using black bulls on Corriente cows is THE MOST profitable operation you can have. My partner and I have a little over 200 acres of old-cut over timber, that is our quail and rabbit hunting preserve. it is fenced in with 5 stands of Motto barb wire. it is covered in Kudzu, Johnson grass, broon sage, honey suckle and boack berry thickets. We have for years, ran 120- give or take, Corr cows on it. We have $250-$300 MAYBE in each one. The only inputs we have each year, are salt and n minerals. No worming, vaccination, pesticides..nothing. Each Easter we put in 6-8 bulls. started out with angus and last few years used Brangus and/or Ultrablack. Pull the bulls Memorial weekend, and put in the Corr bull for cleanup til July 4th. We get 110-120 polled, black calves all born in February. We usually get no more than 10, some years no, corr calves, in March. We keep the heifers and rope the steers. After they have all calved, we round them up and tag the calves and band or cut the bull calves. don't see them again til we round them up in August and take them to the sale. Smallest one we ever weaned as a heifer at 435, and largest was a steer couple of years ago that was 520-something. NO ONE can tell these from any other angus cross calf at weaning age, and they bring what other black calves do at the sale. There is NO WAY you can buy 120 other cows for $30k. and no way you can make more money off of $30k of any other breed. We have $250-$300 cows weaning off $600-$750 claves every year. But,. let's say these 120 calves only brought a dollar a pound. That would still be $60k or better in calf sales, from $30k worth of cows with no inputs. There is NO other breed that yield a calf that sells for 2 -3 times what the cow costs, with ZERO inputs and labor.
The very 1st cattle in the northern states when ranching developed in the 1800's were Criollo. The " Texas Longhorns" and the Mexican Corriente, were basically the same animal, and they thrived in the cold north. Chianina, which are LARGE, are as heat resistant and insect resistant as Brahmas, but do as well in cold weather as other Continental breeds. Lots of mammal species will be bigger and heavier in cold climates than in warm Brown bears are a good example. Alaskan Kodiaks and Siberian Brown bears are heavier than the gizzlies that used to inhabit Arizona, New Mexico and Mexico. But you could transplant a desert grizzly up north in the summer or a Kodiak south in winter, and they would adapt. Northern whitetails are 2 -3 times bigger than the ones in south Florida, but people have imported native and Canadian whitetails down here for years, and they do well. Contractors for northern state and Canadian rodeos have Corriente cattle and sure they hair up more in the winter than those in the south or Mexico, but they thrive as well up there in the off season as any other. You don't see people roping Scottish Highlanders in Canadian rodeos!
It is 100% DEFINITE that using black bulls on Corriente cows is THE MOST profitable operation you can have. My partner and I have a little over 200 acres of old-cut over timber, that is our quail and rabbit hunting preserve. it is fenced in with 5 stands of Motto barb wire. it is covered in Kudzu, Johnson grass, broon sage, honey suckle and boack berry thickets. We have for years, ran 120- give or take, Corr cows on it. We have $250-$300 MAYBE in each one. The only inputs we have each year, are salt and n minerals. No worming, vaccination, pesticides..nothing. Each Easter we put in 6-8 bulls. started out with angus and last few years used Brangus and/or Ultrablack. Pull the bulls Memorial weekend, and put in the Corr bull for cleanup til July 4th. We get 110-120 polled, black calves all born in February. We usually get no more than 10, some years no, corr calves, in March. We keep the heifers and rope the steers. After they have all calved, we round them up and tag the calves and band or cut the bull calves. don't see them again til we round them up in August and take them to the sale. Smallest one we ever weaned as a heifer at 435, and largest was a steer couple of years ago that was 520-something. NO ONE can tell these from any other angus cross calf at weaning age, and they bring what other black calves do at the sale. There is NO WAY you can buy 120 other cows for $30k. and no way you can make more money off of $30k of any other breed. We have $250-$300 cows weaning off $600-$750 calves every year. But,. let's say these 120 calves only brought a ddollar a pound. That woud still be $60k or better in calf sales, from $30k worth of cows with no inputs.
