Best Bull to Improve Future Cows

Help Support CattleToday:

Wind and Sage

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
27
Location
Northeast Wyoming
We raised replacement heifers for sale. We considered the steer calves to be by-products.
I heartily agree with your post Ridgetop.
I agree. I keep the top 25% of the bull calf crop and sell as 2 year old bulls. That makes them pretty much pen 1 and pen 2 bulls. Part of it is addiction, but sometimes I look at the bull crop as a necessary evil, because they generate more income than the steers or the heifer crop. However, the breeding philosophy is "maternal" in focus. If the cowherd is correct, a lot of other desirable traits and good things fall into place.
 

GoWyo

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
223
Reaction score
221
Location
Southeast Wyoming

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
4,156
Reaction score
1,949
Location
Clark County, KY

puzzled in oregon

CT Supporter
CT Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
167
Reaction score
155

GoWyo

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
223
Reaction score
221
Location
Southeast Wyoming
How is the disposition of your Absolute calves?
This cow is our only Absolute daughter - we purchased her dam as a bred heifer and her dam is real easy to get along with. This cow is a spitting image of her mother and also has a good disposition and raises good calves (NR 102). Absolute is one that I look at going back to every year, but just have not done it - not sure why and just might in 2022. Went with Sitz Resilient 10208 (real nice calves on the ground now with all around good EPD profile), Ox Bow Ozzie 3233 (good calves, aimed at maternal) and Mohnen Substantial (also good calves, aimed at maternal). Absolute would fit in with type and kind, just have to make sure to breed to good footed cows.
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
4,156
Reaction score
1,949
Location
Clark County, KY
This cow is our only Absolute daughter - we purchased her dam as a bred heifer and her dam is real easy to get along with. This cow is a spitting image of her mother and also has a good disposition and raises good calves (NR 102). Absolute is one that I look at going back to every year, but just have not done it - not sure why and just might in 2022. Went with Sitz Resilient 10208 (real nice calves on the ground now with all around good EPD profile), Ox Bow Ozzie 3233 (good calves, aimed at maternal) and Mohnen Substantial (also good calves, aimed at maternal). Absolute would fit in with type and kind, just have to make sure to breed to good footed cows.
I used Absolute on some heifers one year, because at the time I really liked Final Answer. Got a couple calves that I liked real well from him, including a heifer calf that was probably the best looking cow potential look that I have ever raised. Even thought the heifers they were out of were calm those calves just did not have the disposition for me to want to register them, and sold just as commercial calves at weaning. I've heard of others that have had no disposition issues and a couple other situations similar to mine. Mine was just a small sampling, but was noticeable as their contemporaries were not that way, nor have calves from those cows and other bulls since. I had two Final Answer daughters that were pretty nice cows, both calm individuals, but one of those consistently had calves that were too flighty for my liking too.
I am not meaning to run down that line of cattle as I had just a small sampling and I think they have been good in a lot of other programs.
 
Last edited:
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
Here are a few that I have an eye on from an upcoming auction later this month. Do I have something in the ballpark to improve my herd and retain heifers?

Reg No.NameCED EPDBirth WtWN Adj WTYR Adj WTYR Adj HTYR Adj SCDOC EPDHP EPDMilk EPDMarb EPDRE EPD$M$W$F$G$B$C
19811452​
G A R Ashland TA030
14​
81​
792​
1438​
51.7​
34.23​
24​
15.2​
36​
1.51​
1.24​
85​
112​
114​
96​
210​
357​
19874021​
G A R Phoenix W770
14​
78​
705​
1230​
53.3​
37.71​
28​
8.4​
25​
1.53​
0.95​
70​
81​
113​
89​
202​
332​
19972995​
G A R Combustion 980S
10​
76​
537​
1094​
50.4​
33.62​
24​
11.2​
26​
1.24​
0.87​
71​
71​
112​
80​
192​
320​
19726168​
G A R Ashland E330
10​
71​
740​
1425​
52.5​
32.39​
33​
12.2​
22​
1.11​
0.69​
78​
88​
100​
69​
169​
297​
19974557​
G A R Tahoe A047
12​
80​
683​
1201​
52.1​
35.09​
26​
9.6​
36​
1.1​
0.72​
83​
98​
84​
72​
156​
285​
19978936​
G A R Enhance W2720
10​
58​
874​
1421​
52.7​
35.67​
29​
14.8​
25​
1.1​
0.5​
73​
83​
114​
68​
182​
309​
19886471​
G A R Quantum 250J
11​
70​
541​
1264​
52.9​
35.86​
27​
16.3​
30​
1.13​
1.36​
95​
103​
94​
85​
179​
327​
19986217​
G A R Quantum L380
12​
71​
813​
1295​
54.8​
37.96​
33​
10.9​
29​
1.02​
1.27​
81​
91​
109​
78​
186​
322​
 

BFE

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
866
Reaction score
638
Location
Southeast Illinois
CEM, HP, $EN for making replacements.
I look hard at the $EN number too, and milk. Mature height as well. I look for +15 to -15 range on $EN, 20's on milk and around breed average to maybe a little below on mature height. I want cows to take care of themselves, but not at the expense of the calf. It's like we do when picking corn hybrids, workhorse vs. racehorse. I'm not in a racehorse area for corn production, marginal type soils here when you get out of the bottoms.
Same with my cows, they have to make it on fescue, air, water and mineral. Workhorse genetics once again. I'll take a Pete Rose vs a Reggie Jackson on the farm. (Or maybe an Ozzie Smith, since I'm in Cardinal Country!)
 

FungusProudKY31

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
363
Reaction score
411
The one that is home raised for at least 2 generations. An AI bull can peak your interest but two bouts of gestational programming from cows that fit your environment will do what anyone needs. Chasing AI great bulls of the month: been there, done dat - a fool's game.
 
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
So today was sale day and we ended up buying a pretty nice bull. hopefully, I did ok picking him out with your help. I really looked at $M +95, HP +16.2 CED +11, DOC+27, Milk +29 Hip ht was 52.9 Scr Cir was 35.86.
 

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
238
Reaction score
224
Location
North Texas
Adam hopefully you had a price in mind and didn't get bid up too much, in the cattle business we need to watch our expenses. Based on your previous post it looks like you got G A R Quantum 250J, there's lots of growth and carcass traits built into that bull. Next year you need to post pictures of your first calves from him.

J+ Cattle
 
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
Adam hopefully you had a price in mind and didn't get bid up too much, in the cattle business we need to watch our expenses. Based on your previous post it looks like you got G A R Quantum 250J, there's lots of growth and carcass traits built into that bull. Next year you need to post pictures of your first calves from him.

J+ Cattle
Yep thats the one we got. I had a price wrote down put in an absentee bid and let it ride. Went back to work and came back a winner. There were several others on my list that went for 15 to 20k. Way out of my budget.
 
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
The plan is to keep him as long as he stays healthy and fertile. We are planning to retain all heifers as long as the bills are paid and grow from there. Right now we have 20 pairs with 7 of them being heifers. Hoping we can keep them all but for sure have 4 i will keep. Also have 2 nice bull calves we are keeping to see how they grow. Time will tell will keep posted with calf pics .
 

Banjo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
1,531
Reaction score
251
Location
Ky
If you have some good cows then you should keep a couple of bulls from a couple of the those cows...let them bred your cows ....keep the heifers and a couple more bulls, as always be selective....like begets like......
 
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
If you have some good cows then you should keep a couple of bulls from a couple of the those cows...let them bred your cows ....keep the heifers and a couple more bulls, as always be selective....like begets like......
Trying to learn how to be selective doing alot of reading
 

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
238
Reaction score
224
Location
North Texas
We are planning to retain all heifers as long as the bills are paid and grow from there.
Adam you're going to need a plan for how to breed the retained heifers at around 15 months of age, one suggestion is to AI them. You may be able to find a friend, neighbor or vet that can do this for you if you don't know how to do it yourself. Breeding them back to their own sire is possible if the offspring are not being retained.
 

WFfarm

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
347
Reaction score
266
Location
Weastern NY
The plan is to keep him as long as he stays healthy and fertile. We are planning to retain all heifers as long as the bills are paid and grow from there. Right now we have 20 pairs with 7 of them being heifers. Hoping we can keep them all but for sure have 4 i will keep. Also have 2 nice bull calves we are keeping to see how they grow. Time will tell will keep posted with calf pics .
We have about 30 cows and our criteria for retaining heifers is to keep ones that were born in the first 30 days of our caving season (April-May) and they must weigh over 575 lbs at weaning (6 months). Prefer to keep heifers out of your best cows. Keep good records of when they calve, problem births, and Average Daily Gain for each calf. You will soon be able to rank your herd and identify your best cows. Keeping the earlier born heifers will naturally select for fertility. Numbers are important, but select animals that are appealing to you as well, whether it's body shape, personality, or color.
 
OP
A

Adam Freeman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
27
Location
Bennington Kansas
We have about 30 cows and our criteria for retaining heifers is to keep ones that were born in the first 30 days of our caving season (April-May) and they must weigh over 575 lbs at weaning (6 months). Prefer to keep heifers out of your best cows. Keep good records of when they calve, problem births, and Average Daily Gain for each calf. You will soon be able to rank your herd and identify your best cows. Keeping the earlier born heifers will naturally select for fertility. Numbers are important, but select animals that are appealing to you as well, whether it's body shape, personality, or color.
All my calves except 2 were born between mar 1 and april 1. I keep records of weight dates sex and issues etc. Any cow that aborts abandons or loses a calf is sold. The 2 bull calves i am keeping for now are out of registered sire and dam. I should be able to use 1 if they make the cut on my new bulls offspring as well as any new heifers i might buy. Right now i have 20 spring cows and want to look at getting 20 fall calvers as well. Then i can turn my spring heifers into fall calvers and vice versus so i am not interbreeding them but able to use the same lines. Let me know if i am being way off base.
 

WFfarm

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
347
Reaction score
266
Location
Weastern NY
All my calves except 2 were born between mar 1 and april 1. I keep records of weight dates sex and issues etc. Any cow that aborts abandons or loses a calf is sold. The 2 bull calves i am keeping for now are out of registered sire and dam. I should be able to use 1 if they make the cut on my new bulls offspring as well as any new heifers i might buy. Right now i have 20 spring cows and want to look at getting 20 fall calvers as well. Then i can turn my spring heifers into fall calvers and vice versus so i am not interbreeding them but able to use the same lines. Let me know if i am being way off base.
Sounds like a good game plan.
 

Latest posts

Top