Best breeds for feedlots

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farmer rich

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This probably belongs on the breed board too.

I know a lot of you guys farm in a different environment to me, but my question is, why are the early maturing british breeds like angus and hereford so universally popular, considering that the majority of cattle in the US are finished in feedlot systems which favour the later maturing and higher yielding breeds like charolais, belgian blue and limousin?

I figured most of you are cow-calf operators who use the british breeds to produce more moderate sized cows, but is there anybody here who rears serious numbers for feedlot operations?
 
The June 2005 Cow Country News (a Kentucky Cattlemen's Assoc publication) had a small blurb on p34 regarding two university conducted comparison studies on feedlot performance (IU-Perdue and Oregon St Univ) that were recently completed. According to the short write-up, shorthorn steers performed the best. I do not know the specifics, so take it for what it is worth.

I firmly believe what many have said on here and other boards -- there is more difference within breeds than between breeds.
 
In my youth the Durhams were real popular, can't remember the last time I seen any in a pasture, good cattle.

To the other poster on why the Hereford and Angus are so popular its kind of like driving a Ford and a moped, both get you where you are going and are fun to drive. You just really don't want anyone to know you had to drive a moped to get to the show.
 
Caustic Burno":1a1tcjz5 said:
To the other poster on why the Hereford and Angus are so popular its kind of like driving a Ford and a moped, both get you where you are going and are fun to drive. You just really don't want anyone to know you had to drive a moped to get to the show.

Dont really understand what you mean here caustic.
You saying Angus and hereford are the Ford? that makes lims and char the BMW or Mercedes right? didnt realise they made mopeds! :lol:
 
farmer rich":12lj1y6d said:
This probably belongs on the breed board too.

I know a lot of you guys farm in a different environment to me, but my question is, why are the early maturing british breeds like angus and hereford so universally popular, considering that the majority of cattle in the US are finished in feedlot systems which favour the later maturing and higher yielding breeds like charolais, belgian blue and limousin?

Your preception of Angus is not accurate for the US. (I think you might also be surprised at the looks of Simmentals, Maines, and Limousin raised here.) We raise registered Angus and performance test our bulls. Most of them have adjusted 365 day weights of over 1200 lbs and marbling scores of 3+. Had they been steers, they would be ready for slaughter at a year of age or younger. The Continental breeds tend to be later "finishing" and may get too big for the packing plant's equipment. The US meat grading system also rewards marbling. Though some Continental cattle will have better yield grades than the British cattle, they can be discounted because of the lack of marbling. The packers often don't even bother to grade the double muscled cattle. They just discount them and sell to speciality markets or smaller processors.

I figured most of you are cow-calf operators who use the british breeds to produce more moderate sized cows, but is there anybody here who rears serious numbers for feedlot operations?

I'd encourage you to look for US feedlots online and send an email asking what they're looking for in their feedlots. They'll feed anything, of course, but I think you'll find a lot of them looking for Angus cattle. The calves sold at our local sale barn are destined for the feedlots and the black ones generally outsell similar quality calves of other colors. I think that's true at sale barns all across the US.
 
Thanks for your post Frankie, the points you make I think are right, the UK carcase grading systen is based on yeild grades and fat cover, giving no weighting to marbling. This is something which discriminates against breeds like angus and there are calls for a move toward a system much more like the US one. It also seems to me that the carcase qualities of american angus are much better than ours, though the continental breeds (non-british european) seem to be much poorer.
 
farmer rich":2kgq90w2 said:
Caustic Burno":2kgq90w2 said:
To the other poster on why the Hereford and Angus are so popular its kind of like driving a Ford and a moped, both get you where you are going and are fun to drive. You just really don't want anyone to know you had to drive a moped to get to the show.

Dont really understand what you mean here caustic.
You saying Angus and hereford are the Ford? that makes lims and char the BMW or Mercedes right? didnt realise they made mopeds! :lol:

All that fog is clouding your vision, it kinda like a call girl and a prostitute only difference is price.
Herefords,Angus.Brammers are the call girls so you know what that makes the rest.
 
farmer rich":26hjpvec said:
Thanks for your post Frankie, the points you make I think are right, the UK carcase grading systen is based on yeild grades and fat cover, giving no weighting to marbling. This is something which discriminates against breeds like angus and there are calls for a move toward a system much more like the US one. It also seems to me that the carcase qualities of american angus are much better than ours, though the continental breeds (non-british european) seem to be much poorer.

Do you know if the UK grading standards are online? I'd be interested in seeing them. We've learned here in the US that, generally, higher quality grade beef (more marbling) is more likely to be tender than lower quality grade beef (less marbling). Since we don't have any way to actually test for tenderness on the inspection line, we use grade to identify "better" beef.
 
25 said:

FRANKIE YOU HAVE MADE WHAT I FEAL IS TWO BOGUS STATEMENTS.

{THE PACKERS DONT EVEN BOTHER TO GRADE THE DOUBLE MUSCLED CATTLE.}

{AND THEN THEY JUST DISCOUNT THEM AND SELL THEM TO SPECIALTY MARKETS}

NOW I ASK YOU FOR PROOF OF THIS OFF THE WALL STATEMENT.

I AM ASKING FOR YOU TO BACK UP YOUR STATEMENT AND PLEASE NO STRINGS ATTACHED WHEN YOU REPLY JUST ADDRESS MY QUESTION AND DONT PUT CONDITIONS ON ANSWERING IT.

AND FOR THE RECORD TYPING IN CAPS TO SEPERATE YOUR WORDS AND MINE.

I AWAIT AND STILL WAITING FOR PICTURES OF YOUR CATTLE.
IF YOU DONT WANT TO POST THEM PLEASE PM ME WITH THEM.

NOW A QUESTION FOR YOU YOU SAY YOU SELL BREEDING STOCK.

ARE YOU CERTIFIED JOHNE'S FREE?


Snicker, snicker. I see you're still having a bit of trouble with the board? Below is the list of questions that I posted earlier and you ignored, 25 (or quarter. I like that better). When/if you answer them HONESTLY I will CONSIDER answering any questions you want to ask. Until then, I'll keep posting them in response to your questions to me. (Caps for emphasis, not yelling)

Here are the questions:

1. Will you admit that you lied about the MARC data? You claimed it showed Shorthorns outgraded Angus and it's not true. Will you admit that?
2. Will you admit you were wrong when you said I raised cows and kids? My profile says my interests are cows and kids. Will you admit you misrepresented that information?
3. Are you willing to admit you were wrong when you claimed BurgerKing sold CAB hamburgers?
4. Are you willing to admit that the USDA didn't set grading standards to make Angus look better?
5. Will you post the names of "honest" Angus breeders that you claim will support you in saying that Angus breeders added Holstein to the breed to get more milk and Chi to get more hip height? I have my list of Angus breeders who will strongly disagree with that. Let's see yours; I'll show you mine. Put up or shut up.
6. You claimed the CAB website had information showing that potential CAB cattle couldn't grade Choice. Then you said it was a CattleToday article and you would find it in the archives and post the link. Where is it? Now you are again claiming the information came from a CAB website. Again, put up or shut up.
 
Some one turn on the water hose so I can spray this dog fight and break em up. This isn't a discussion about cattle or a good arguement in fun, or even poking a little fun this is just plan hard headed mean spirited dialogue. Getting to the point its time to get the 22.
 
LETS SEE FRANKIE OLD GIRL
1. YOU WERE THE ONE THAT LISTED THE POST OF THE STUDY DONE AT OKLAHOMA STATE. NOW HERES WHAT I DID AND LETS SEE IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING THE SAME THING.
I CLICKED ON THE LINK YOU POSTED CLICKED ON RESEARCH TOP RIGHT HAND CORNER. THE PAGE OPENED AND BAM THAT NASTY WORD APPEARED 19 TIMES ON THE OPENING PAGE.
ANGUS HERFORD CROSS IE HERFORD ANGUS CROSS AND SO ON A MERE 19 TIMES. OH SO YOU DONT MISUNDERSTAND THE NASTY WORD I AM REFERING TO IS ANGUS NOT HERFORD.

NOW CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG YOU PREVIOUSLY STATED ON THE POST PERTAINING TO THE SHORTHORNS YOU SAID I LIED THAT ANGUS WERE NOT EVEN IN THE STUDY. I GUESS YOU NEED TO OPEN YOUR EYES ADJUST YOUR BLINDERS TAKE SOME GERITOL AND LOOK FOR YOURSELF. BECAUSE THERE WERE 19 TIMES THE WORD ANGUS WAS USED SO TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF AND USE ALL BUT ONE OF YOUR FINGERS OR TOES AND THAT EQUALS 19 TIMES ANGUS WAS REFERED TO IN YOUR POST!!!!

if you have have forgotten where you posted the link it is on the post titled shorthorn versus angus is there much difference page two

You said "click on the link frankie posted then click on research in the top right hand corner open germplasm at marc scroll down click on table 4 the facts are in black and white todays angus 61.2% choice." Here's the link to your comment
http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... c&start=15

"shorthorns 61.0 % short horn neck and neck
angus dont have enough of an edge to worry about
"

And here's a link to the info being discussed: http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/rese ... rccomp.htm

The article clearly says "Although straightbred Hereford and Angus were produced, their results are not presented because they did not have the benefit of heterosis." You can read; the cattle referenced were just as much Hereford as Angus, yet you continue to bash Angus. Will you admit you are lying?

2. GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID ABOUT YOU RAISING CATTLE AND KIDS I ASKED A QUESTION. I BELEIVE I SAID I SEE FROM YOUR PROFILE YOU SAY YOU RAISE CATTLE AND KIDS. I THEN ASKED WOULD THAT BE CHILDREN AND CATTLE OR GOATS AND CATTLE. BAHHH.

But my profile does not say I raise cattle and kids. It says my interests are cattle and kids. Will you admit you misrepresented that information?

3. LOOK BACK THROUGH ALL OF YOUR POSTS YOU WILL FIND A STATEMENT YOU MADE THAT WENT LIKE THIS I MENTIONED HOW IT WAS THE ANGUS BREEDERS THOUGHTIT WAS SUCH A BIG DEAL TO SEE HARDEES AND BURGER KINK SELLING ANGUS BURGERS YOU CAME BACK AND CROWED LIKE AN OLD CROW ALL ANIMALS PRODUCE SOME HAMBURGER AND THIS WAS WHERE THE CAB OFF FALL ENDED UP. AGAIN LOOK AT YOUR POSTS AND YOU WILL SEE YOU EVEN HAD A TWINKLE IN YOUR EYE WHEN YOU MADE THAT REPLY.

You claimed Hardees and Burger "Kink" (snicker) were selling CAB. It is not the truth; I posted a link showing it's not the truth. Every animal does produce some hamburger; but Hardees and Burger KING don't sell CAB hamburgers. Will you admit it?

4. THE ANGUS PEOPLE CAB OR WHICH EVER WAY YOU CHOOSE TO SEE IT TODAY. WORKED WITH THE USDA AND CAME UP WITH THE CAB PROGRAM. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT.

Yes, the American Angus Association had to get USDA approval on the CAB program. Your claim was that the specs were set to favor Angus. You are simply a dishonest person, quarter.

5. NOW PERTAINING TO HONEST ANGUS BREEDERS I AM SURE THERE ARE MANY HONEST ANGUS BREEDERS AND MANY WHO HAD THAT BLACK HIDE PULLED OVER THEIR EYES ALSO. I JUST DONT HAVE THE TIME TO DO THE RESEARCH TO FIND THEM.

ROTFLMAO!! You said "i also asked you to ask some honest angus breders about the above i bet if you look you can find some to tell you the truth about the other influence in the breed" and now you don't have time to find them? Just as I thought, you're full of bull. ROTFL!

[SPEAKING OF HONESTY I HONESTLY FEAL YOU WERE TROUBLED BY ALL OF THE DIALOUGE ON THE BOARD PERTAININGTO HERFORDS. AND SO YOU CHOOSE TO TITLE YOUR LITTLE POST HERFORD BREEDERS AND SHOW AN ALLEDGED TO BE DISGRUNTLED HERFORD BREEDER . ITS A CRYING OUT LOUD SHAME YOU MADE NO MENTION OF THE SECOND POSTER ON THE SITE YOU REFERED TO WHO APPEARED TO BE A DISRUNTLED ANGUS BREEDER. WHY DIDNT YOU MAKE A POST ANGUS BREEDERS. I THINK YOU WERE SIMPLY TAKING A CHEAP SHOT AT THE HERFORDS. ]
WHY DO I SAY THIS BECAUSE IF YOU HAD ANY OTHER INTENT YOU WOULD HAVE PMD GREENWILLOW OR CROWDER FARMS OR ANY OF THE HERFORD BREEDERS. I BET YOU NEARLY WET YOUR PANTS WHEN YOU PUT THE WEB SITE IN THE POST BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOUI WERE SO SLICK.

Why should I be troubled with the Hereford dialogue? I posted the link. You can't even post a link and you claim I did it by accident. LOL! I made no mention of any of the posts after I put the link out there for people to look at if they chose to do so. But since you seem to want to discuss it, there were two disgruntled Hereford breeders, both claiming to have been in the Hereford business for many years.

6. LAST YEAR THE ANGUS WEB SITE LISTED ALL OF THE CRITERIA I MENTIONED PERTAINING TO THE CAB PROGRAM AND ON THE SITE YOU COULD FIND THE INFO ABOUT THE 9,000,OOO HEAD THAT WERE SENT TO 32 CERTIFIED ANGUS FEEDLOTS AND A MERE 1,700,000 GRADED CHOICE IT ALSO MENTIONED ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS TO BE QUALIFIED AS ANGUS INFLUENCED CATTLE . HERE WERE THE QUALIFICATIONS ASSUMED TO BE OF ANGUS INFLUENCE AND 51% BLACK HIDE.
FOR TH E RECORD THAT INFO IS NO LONGER THERE AND IF THE TRUTH BE KNOWN A LOT OF THEM HONEST ANGUS BREEDERS CALLED AND RAISED HELL BECAUSE HONEST INFO WAS BEING POSTED AND SO THEY REMOVED IT. SO THERE ARE YOUR 6 QUESTIONS ANSWERED MS ANGUS.

So you say. I say you're full of bull. Now you're saying it was an Angus website, not a CAB site or an article in Cattle Today? You have no documentation or reference for your claim, yet now you demand I post references for my comments? Not likely.

SO WILL YOU PUT YOUR ANSWERS ON THE BOARD.

PS PLEASE DONT BE LIKE THEM OLD SMALL ABERDEEN ANGUS AND COME BACK WITH MORE STRINGS ATTACHED BEFORE YOU ANSWER.

Nope. You obviously haven't answered my questions. I'll put them in a separate post and see if you can come up with the truth this time.

YOU WROTE RECENTLY YOU JUST GOT CONFUSED OR YOUR COMPUTER WAS SO SLOW SO YOU COULD NOT POST PICTURES IS THAT THE REAL REASON? OR IS THE REASON YOU ARE AFRAID OF GETTING YOUR ANGUS TOES STEPPED ON. POST SOME OF YOUR PICTURES AND NOTICE I SAID YOURS. READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

Gee, I either got confused or my computer was slow??? Too funny.

IS YOUR HERD JOHNE'S FRE HAVE YOU EVER HAD THEM TESTED. THIS POSTS FOR YOU FRANKIE OLD GIRL.

When you answer the questions truthfully…..
 
Here are the questions:

"1. Will you admit that you lied about the MARC data? You claimed it showed Shorthorns outgraded Angus and it's not true. Will you admit that?
2. Will you admit you were wrong when you said I raised cows and kids? My profile says my interests are cows and kids. Will you admit you misrepresented that information?
3. Are you willing to admit you were wrong when you claimed BurgerKing sold CAB hamburgers?
4. Are you willing to admit that the USDA didn't set grading standards to make Angus look better?
5. Will you post the names of "honest" Angus breeders that you claim will support you in saying that Angus breeders added Holstein to the breed to get more milk and Chi to get more hip height? I have my list of Angus breeders who will strongly disagree with that. Let's see yours; I'll show you mine. Put up or shut up.
6. You claimed the CAB website had information showing that potential CAB cattle couldn't grade Choice. Then you said it was a CattleToday article and you would find it in the archives and post the link. Where is it? Then you again claimed the information came from a CAB website. Your last claim was that it was from an Angus website. Can't wait to see the next claim. Put up or shut up."

I still don't see them answered honestly. Just a lot of yelling and screaming.
 
Manure. You haven't tried to be "cordual". You've been rude and insulting and a breed basher from the beginning. Now that I've stood up to you and called your bluff, you want to pretend nothing happened. Well, it did. It's all out on the boards for anyone to read.

Let me be very clear: I don't care what you post as long as you're not bashing my breed of cattle. I'm not obliged to provide proof to you of any statements that I may make because you haven't posted any proof of the ridiculous claims you've made. My choice would be to never have to respond to your posts again.

As much as you'd like to make them an issue, my gender, my age, the color of my hair are none of your business. You still haven't answered the questions honestly. As I said, you have quite an imagination. And again you prove that you don't need facts to make silly assumptions.
 
Caustic,I am begining to understand completely your point of view regarding british and continental breeds.
I have just been looking at some of the bulls on sementank.com and those animals are unrecognisable from the breeds I know, particularly the simmentals and its not just the colour. That WCM Bubba j-78 is the uglyest looking bull ive ever seen and the shorthorns are THE most comical looking cattle.
The Angus and hereford however are some of the best sorts ive seen and I like the beefmasters too. Well muscled, deep bodied animals with good length.
 
farmer rich":2iayn9hw said:
Caustic,I am begining to understand completely your point of view regarding british and continental breeds.
I have just been looking at some of the bulls on sementank.com and those animals are unrecognisable from the breeds I know, particularly the simmentals and its not just the colour. That WCM Bubba j-78 is the uglyest looking bull ive ever seen and the shorthorns are THE most comical looking cattle.
The Angus and hereford however are some of the best sorts ive seen and I like the beefmasters too. Well muscled, deep bodied animals with good length.

The British breeds have remained on course IMO, while the Continetals have been fad animals. They are good cont's and reputable breeders. IMO again the show ring has messed those cattle up with everyone chasing the fads. The Chars of the seventies are nothing like those of today, breeders have worked hard to get the train wreck birth weights down. Limo breeders have an EPD for docilty, great looking cows just the ones I have dealt with had loose screws. Tried a Limo bull for 2 years did not retain one heifer for replacement as they were all certified crazy in a pen.
 

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