Best breeding season

[greggy]

Hi all,

I will pose this question a few ways, it will be in relation to which season is best to join bulls with heifers or cows.

Can you tell me your thoughts using start or end of season, such as best to join at start of summer, or best to calve at approx strart of spring.

I am in Australia, am in a non seasonal rainfall area, it is a dryer air here, not often humid, in winter and adjoining times we get a lot of frost, sometimes snows in winter, but it is never permant snow cover or frozen ground etc....

Summer will be around your 90 to 100 most days with that dry air.

So when is best....

1 when pasture is not the main concern
2 for the calf wellbeing
3 when not as stressful for handler, or more comforable.

I do not mind working in cold, as long as not too bad, do not mind heat as well, but in heat, flies are annoying, you must drink more, so this prob equates to more stress, but, cold maybe stressful too, seeing we cant control the weather such as rain, it seems logical that end of winter and start of the milder weather in spring is prob choice.

We get bad frosts overnight in spring start, which is sept, right into October, which is right about when all the flies start too...this time of year in can be 90 to 100 as well, but not the norm day in day out.

If the feed supply to heifer and cow is not an issue, what are your thoughts ? Anytime convenient ?

If wanting to use more pasture, I would assume arrival at winters end, start of spring would be most peoples aim.

Or do you just run your bulls always with the herd and let them and nature sort it out ?

 

[ccr]

vet tells me calving anytime except in the heat of the summer. bull with cows for 75 days.

 

[bird dog]

Calve when your calves will benefit the most from your pastures. In other words about 5-7 months before you have your best growth of the year.

I calve in early fall (Aug-Oct ) and feed hay when the calves are young and with their mothers. I have a big burst of grass in march April. I wean into this and the calves go to good pasture for 45 days and sell before it gets hot and dry.

In a ideal world, the calves are gone when the hot summer takes the moisture and nutrition from the grass. Of course there are always a few stragglers that miss the deadline. Late calves are costly.

 

[wbvs58]

We have similar conditions to you, I aim to calve on the 1st July so calves are about 3 mths and the age where they benefit from the spring growth and then make the most of our best growing time over summer and then weaned end of March. It is not unusual to get 400+kg calves.

Ken

 

[greggy]

vet tells me calving anytime except in the heat of the summer. bull with cows for 75 days.

Did they say why exactly ? the heat of summer is bad for lambs as they are so small and can dehydrate if mothers not the best feeders, but calves are significantly bigger, and if good access to water, why ?

 

[greggy]

Calve when your calves will benefit the most from your pastures. In other words about 5-7 months before you have your best growth of the year.

I calve in early fall (Aug-Oct ) and feed hay when the calves are young and with their mothers. I have a big burst of grass in march April. I wean into this and the calves go to good pasture for 45 days and sell before it gets hot and dry.

In a ideal world, the calves are gone when the hot summer takes the moisture and nutrition from the grass. Of course there are always a few stragglers that miss the deadline. Late calves are costly.

Ok, makes sense if relying on pasture.......

PS all calves are costly for me

 

[greggy]

We have similar conditions to you, I aim to calve on the 1st July so calves are about 3 mths and the age where they benefit from the spring growth and then make the most of our best growing time over summer and then weaned end of March. It is not unusual to get 400+kg calves.

Ken

Hi Ken, am in a stone fruit growing area, so prob a bit cooler than up north, but is prob similar for many of same reasons.

I will prob not be relying on pasture growth much, and much of my pasture is cool season growing.

Makes sense what your all saying, I was thinking drop in early September (spring in AU), but coming in winter does make more sense if summer pastures and leaving calves on cow.

Would the cold concern you ?

We can be minus 10 C at night here in winter, and when it is cold, and it rains and blows a gale, it is a real headache, it knocks of lambs and mature sheep, even though the paddocks I use are protected, it can be bitter if you get a rain dump and wind starts, although, calves are a lot larger, and if mother is good, they can prob generate enough energy that it is not a problem anywhere in Aus, when you compare to many cold EU areas much of our stock came from.

If you were going to be supplying all the feed, would you just aim to drop when most convenient and bearable for calf and handler alike, or, def avoid the fly peaks that come in say Oct onward...or are calves really pretty hardy.....

PS do you think calves that have no issues being born etc are more hardy than say Dorper or Merino sheep ?

 

[Redgully]

I like to calve in february so the calves are strong enough to get through the cold and when they are hitting their growth phase we have spring pasture. Problem for me is if we get a dry autumn breeding back can be harder being a.i. only.

 

[greggy]

Yeah, ok......would be pretty warm then ? I guess dehydrating is not an issue if on mum....

So do you feel the cold can knock them over, or just knock the condition off ?, do you get to freezing over there, or below most winter nights ?

They are just out in paddocks with little shelter, or put in shelter ?

Thanks for everyones input, gives a lot to thinks about.

 

[Redgully]

We don't get as cold as you, most mornings in winter under 10 degrees and only gets below 0 for a few days here and there. Only have a few trees for shelter. I have had calves born on 40 degree days and never a problem. Also born in freezing rain and been fine. We used to calve year round and never lost any.

 

[wbvs58]

greggy, we are a big stone fruit growing area also, altitude over 900 metres up to 1000, yes we are below 0 most mornings winter with heavy frosts. Cold that we experience is not an issue with calves. When you see what these guys calve in in Nth America and Canada, I am embarressed to even compare it.

Ken

 

[greggy]

Good point, same goes for constant heat with high humidity.

I am thinking like this as quite a few lambs get dropped in the cold of night, and sometijes in worst conditions, with no chance to dry off and get warm, it tends too knock them off, calves have a considerable mass, so logical to be less of a concern, but prob does also depend on mothering instinct somewhat?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You cannot compare sheep to cattle. Lambs are born looking for a place to die. Calves are quite hardy in comparison.
I have to admit, I was chuckling when you were talking about it being down to 0. We have calves born down to 0, but it is 0 F no 0 C !!! All my calves are born in the barn, but the temp in the barn is the same as outdoors - they just don't have any wind to contend with. We get down to -15F or lower many nights during my calving season. Lots colder in many other places, but we do have a very moist cold here in NY. We do lose ear tips now and then - even have had a calf lose most of her tail from freezing - even in the barn.
If feeding isn't a concern, I would calve when it suited your convenience.

 

[gcreekrch]

I like to turn bulls out at the strongest flush of grass. Cows are really cycling and will breed in a fairly short window. Most years we are over 90% done in 40 days. This year we should be done in 45.

This also coincides with the calves being 3 months old at the best grass part of our summer.

 

[greggy]

You cannot compare sheep to cattle. Lambs are born looking for a place to die. Calves are quite hardy in comparison.
I have to admit, I was chuckling when you were talking about it being down to 0. We have calves born down to 0, but it is 0 F no 0 C !!! All my calves are born in the barn, but the temp in the barn is the same as outdoors - they just don't have any wind to contend with. We get down to -15F or lower many nights during my calving season. Lots colder in many other places, but we do have a very moist cold here in NY. We do lose ear tips now and then - even have had a calf lose most of her tail from freezing - even in the barn.
If feeding isn't a concern, I would calve when it suited your convenience.

lol....that is cold enough too freeze my butt off ....


Often it is minus 5 or 10, but, yeah, not like what you have....but without good shelter, when cold, even our zero, and then at night, a dump of rain and a wind....

But if it is very uncomfortable for me when in decent clothing, it cant be too nice for them...but I can come in and dry off and warm up at night......

 

[Ebenezer]

You cannot compare sheep to cattle. Lambs are born looking for a place to die. Calves are quite hardy in comparison.
I have to admit, I was chuckling when you were talking about it being down to 0. We have calves born down to 0, but it is 0 F no 0 C !!! All my calves are born in the barn, but the temp in the barn is the same as outdoors - they just don't have any wind to contend with. We get down to -15F or lower many nights during my calving season. Lots colder in many other places, but we do have a very moist cold here in NY. We do lose ear tips now and then - even have had a calf lose most of her tail from freezing - even in the barn.
If feeding isn't a concern, I would calve when it suited your convenience.

We pasture lamb in March. I would also lamb in other moderate months if I wanted to accelerate the rate. Most lambs are first touched at weaning when I weigh them unless I tag some along the way. If you deal with pampered breeds of sheep and do not apply selection pressure your old adage of "looking for a place to die" is true for any creature from goats, sorry cattle and dogs. It's all in the genes and management and sheep make a good companion flock in a herd. Just use your noggin on the selection and breeds.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Good point. I'm not looking to put sheep on my land ------- although ---- we were out hunting & my nephews came back and said "Aunty, I didn't know you were grazing the Amish' sheep. You have about 50 head on your hay fields" LOL. I had to drive around the block and let him know. We had some severe rains & the creek flooded out some of his fences. My 4-strand unheated hi-tensile didn't slow them down at all!!!

 

[greggy]

I have hair sheep, Dorper mainly, you need either...

Netting, with a really low tight wire, and probably best with a barb at bottom as well, or an offset hot wire about 5 inches from ground, to stop them pushing head under fences, and it needs to be pretty high the fence as well.

or

pre fab like hinge joint, with smaller spacing at bottom, and prob a barb too at bottom, I just put some up and left bottom wire about an inch or so from the ground, and some will go to the middle between posts, and push head under.

Both need a hot wire at about knee height to keep them off any fence, as they will rub anywhere in seasons change to remove the hair.

So, yeah, 4 strands of anything, including hot wire, will not stop Dorper, or probably many wool sheep, they use the hair/wool to defeat hot wire, and some are so quick, they just run through it. Are your 4 barbs ?

I think 5 or 6 barb rows would probably stop most.

Net is prob best, it keeps most things out and most things in.

I am still working on the best fence for most creatures, on my internal hinge joint, I did as above, and going to ad a barb at bottom, above the pre fab is one plain wire, and very top is a hot wire instead of barb, this works great to train cattle not to put head over fences, it also means most keep away from gates then too, you can see they stay away from all fences, perimeter just has a knee high offset, and that works well to keep all off apart from small dogs and lambs, who are not pushing on the fence anyway, having low offsets is a pain if you need to mow or work there yourself.)