Best breed for maternal & terminal bulls

[dun]

A terminal Angus makes about as much sense as running a Shetland in the Kentucky Derby.

We do it. Black calf and nothing I want on the farm, typically will maybe grade better on the rail.

 

[VLS_GUY]

A few things about this terminal bull:
I am making the assumption the cow and calf is on good pasture. The weaning weight on such bulls with out creep is commonly above 800 LB where I was in Central Alberta.
The calves will have high quality free choice hay available ad lib.
Even in dry years compensatory gain will allow a lighter weaned calf to catch up by the time he is a yearling.
No amazing growth or conversion rates.

 

[3waycross]

A terminal Angus makes about as much sense as running a Shetland in the Kentucky Derby.

We do it. Black calf and nothing I want on the farm, typically will maybe grade better on the rail.

Last time I looked that was the definition of TERMINAL. well maybe not the pure definition but pretty close. The AAA says they do it all so if someone wants to use one like Dun does then I guess you have to call it terminal. Of course I am pretty sure his terminal sire lives in a can not the pasture.LOL

As much as I like to pimp the Angus I own one and to be fair I guess he fits the same description. He is used on my "purebred" Gelbvieh cows to produce a "TERMINAL product for me. I don't keep balancer females, they are a product that is created strictly for sale. So doesn't that qualify as terminal also?

 

[Northern Rancher]

Are you using a bull you wouldn't keep heifers from yourself?

 

[3waycross]

Are you using a bull you wouldn't keep heifers from yourself?

He makes beutiful heifers, and yes if I were a commercial cowman I would keep them in a heartbeat. They are just not the product I want. I breed some cows for replacements out of Gelbvieh sires whose bloodlines I want in my herd. Like I said I don't keep balancers. I suppose that could change but right now my Angus bull is strictly a terminal bull. Not because he doesn't have great calving ease Growth, etc etc. He has some great maternal traits but I am not in the Angus business so I don't keep his dtrs.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I guess I got hung up on the semantics-a terminal bull to me means all the progeny are feedlot bound.

 

[dun]

Are you using a bull you wouldn't keep heifers from yourself?

This year it's pretty achedemic since all we've had have been bulls. But that is a correct statement.

 

[3waycross]

I guess I got hung up on the semantics-a terminal bull to me means all the progeny are feedlot bound.

I think terminal is as terminal does. One man's terminal bull is another mans cow maker. It's hard to argue with the "feedlot bound" description though. My apologies!

 

[Northern Rancher]

Ohh nothing to apologize about!

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Do you get this same bump with a Balancer/Hereford cross...I guess what I'm asking is do the two breeds have to be full blood?

For my money and a lot of other folks that is the ultimate deal. The 3waycross adds the last little bit of available heterosis, and with that cross you will get growth and max your carcass traits. Personally I would much prefer a Red Gelbvieh crossed on the hereford cow then breed the resulting offspring to a hot terminal Angus bull. That gives you a red/red baldie cowherd that is more heat tolerant, has great maternal and should have real good disposition. Then the Angus gives them what the market seems to want. The blk hide. :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

Keybottles and Forum contributors-

This contribution to this thread may be a little involved, but please bear with me.

Being retired these days, and not having to slug in the snow and mud to discharge mandatory obligations to my cattle charges, I am cozy and warm in my comfortable chair watching the 2011 National Football League Scouting Combine, by which Professional NFL Team Managers, Scouts, and Owners are analyzing (Judging!) potential draftees for their respective teams - which draft is coming at the end of April this year.

I agree with 3waycross in this thread in relationship to Heterosis and cross-bred vigor! The most outstanding, bare, simple, naked fact that I have detected in this seeming unrelated activity to beef cattle production and breeding is that Single Trait Selection protocols is NOT in the formula for choosing champions - in ANY activity! These football team Executives are using the most sophisticated electronic and human selection protocols I have ever seen! - - and they are using from 10 to 20 different methods and techniques in making their final decisions prior to drafting (buying!) their potential "money-makers!" They are not basing their selections on color, size, Phenotype (What the player "looks" like), or Functional abilities (Traits!). Potential (future) performance is uppermost in their selection agendas.
Consider these few examples: any sports activity or game, manufacturing or growing ANY usable product for human consumption, and certainly in the breeding of beef cattle for profit to the producer or consumer - ALL of these businesses require considerations of multiple factors before the final decisions are made to impose definitive actions!

In answer to your question as to whether the two breeds "have to be full blood" or not - of course not. The critical factors upon which to focus precludes specific breed decisions. Concentrating on the particular "Type" of cattle with which you are concerned will point you in the direction of seedstock you should acquire. Whether it is Purebred, Crossbred, 3waycross, or multiple breeds being employed in your Management decisions, the overall quality of the seedstock used will determine the bottom-line results of the progeny - not just one or two or three "barn-blind" factors. The tools that are applied are Visual Appraisal, Ancestral Performance, EPD's, DNA Technology, Individual Performance, Frame size, Structural Soundness, Fleshing ability, the afore-mentioned 'functional traits', and, of course, the particular traits of the individual Breeds being considered. There are, arguably, many other factors which can be thrown into the "decision" mix when selections are being made, but the one's mentioned above cover the majority of the most important.

The bottom line here that I am hoping to present in an understandable manner is, "Single Trait Selection" methods, whether breeds, or crossbreeds, or characteristics is NOT the acceptable method of making final choices. MANY thoughts and ideas and a lot of time should be involved in the last and final act of the ultimate decision point!

Thanks for reading this bit of Philosophy. I hope it helps.

DOC HARRIS

 

[blackcowz]

DOC,
I'm gonna try to get by and see you early June again this year. I'll be up your way for judging camp again,=.
Cade

 

[KMacGinley]

Check out the tru-line concept here...http://kcorner.bigboardlive.com/t34p555 ... ns-from-ll

Shoshone angus x Eaton Charolais, but you can insert your choice of breeds or crosses...

I would do a DeeWall hereford x a maternal angus or a Kaper shorthorn x maternal angus x Gelbvieh or Charolais or ????

 

[EAT BEEF]

Check out the tru-line concept here...http://kcorner.bigboardlive.com/t34p555 ... ns-from-ll

Shoshone angus x Eaton Charolais, but you can insert your choice of breeds or crosses...

I would do a DeeWall hereford x a maternal angus or a Kaper shorthorn x maternal angus x Gelbvieh or Charolais or ????

why does anythong like this always kill the topic?