Best breed for maternal & terminal bulls

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keysbottles

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I have been a hobby farmer for a number of years and now my son is joining me and expanding the operation. I have 20 head of Reg. Black Angus and he has bought 60 head of mixed heifers, with the goal of eventually building to 100 head. We are presently using Black Angus bulls.

We plan to use the Angus cows to feed replacements into the commercial herd. To take advantage of hybrid vigor we plan to cross the Angus cows with a different breed bull and use a third breed for the terminal bull.

My questions are, is this a sound plan and what breeds would best serve as the maternal and terminal bulls? We have been looking at Limousin, Gelbvieh and Piedmontese.
 

Isomade

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My personal preference would be Hereford on the maternal. Black baldies are hard to beat. Then I would use a Charolais bull. That is what my operation is now except I have a little ear on my cattle down here for heat tolerance.
 

3waycross

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keysbottles":2ne51l91 said:
I have been a hobby farmer for a number of years and now my son is joining me and expanding the operation. I have 20 head of Reg. Black Angus and he has bought 60 head of mixed heifers, with the goal of eventually building to 100 head. We are presently using Black Angus bulls.

We plan to use the Angus cows to feed replacements into the commercial herd. To take advantage of hybrid vigor we plan to cross the Angus cows with a different breed bull and use a third breed for the terminal bull.

My questions are, is this a sound plan and what breeds would best serve as the maternal and terminal bulls? We have been looking at Limousin, Gelbvieh and Piedmontese.


Hereford on the Angus then Gelbvieh on the baldies.
 

angusdave63

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here in indiana the simangus is the in thing right now i think in my opinion a real good herfy bull on them would be great David
 

Stocker Steve

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Read an Angus bulletin article last week why not to cross breed. Their point was that BA had made so much progress on growth and carcass that you do not need any continental blood in feed lot animals. ;-)

I like Char on baldies but they get discounted here.
I like GV on baldies but the heifers are too big for me.
I have started with Limi on baldies. We will see.
 
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keysbottles

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Please educate me about hybrid vigor. I hear this term all the time but then I also read the articles down playing it. I realize most information is written by feed Co.,drug Co., etc. and they all have an agenda and that is why I am here, trying to get real world info. Thanks.
 

Aero

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dont waste your time trying to figure out the difference between mainstream breeds; there is little difference other than color. What you need to focus on is finding a source of genetics that has cows doing what you want to do. If they are doing it now, you know they can get there. if they arent doing it now, there is no reason to believe they can.

never forget: maternal traits make 90% of your profitability.
 

Gelbvieh 5

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Aero":3iamjo9d said:
dont waste your time trying to figure out the difference between mainstream breeds; there is little difference other than color.
THAT"S :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:and you know it. What you need to focus on is finding a source of genetics that has cows doing what you want to do.Of course that would be YOUR cows wouldn't it O great all knowing one If they are doing it now, you know they can get there. if they arent doing it now, there is no reason to believe they can.

never forget: maternal traits make 90% of your profitability.
 

Boss Cowman

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Stocker Steve":ux364nk1 said:
I like GV on baldies but the heifers are too big for me.
Really? A balancer or gelbvieh bull on baldies is about as good as it gets. If you pay much attention the breed is actually one of the smaller breeds of cattle mature cow wise that there is. For a terminal I would use an angus or charlaois, shouldn't be any problem finding a high growth angus bull :clap: For the maternal cross I would use a hereford or balancer.
 

Aero

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Gelbvieh 5":3a9t06l6 said:
THAT"S :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:and you know it.

uhh... nope; straight up gospel.

one day you might move beyond common knowledge. until then, do more reading and less typing.
 

Commercialfarmer

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keysbottles":1xdzv60h said:
Please educate me about hybrid vigor. I hear this term all the time but then I also read the articles down playing it. I realize most information is written by feed Co.,drug Co., etc. and they all have an agenda and that is why I am here, trying to get real world info. Thanks.

From wikipedia: Heterosis, or hybrid vigor or outbreeding enhancement, is the increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring. It is the occurrence of a genetically superior offspring from mixing the genes of its parents.

Hybrid vigor is the only free ticket in livestock production I can think of. It is the superior growth, fertility, etc.. of offspring from parents of two different genetic pools. Instead of 2+2=4 you get 2+2=5. The further apart the genetic background of parents (less shared genes), the increased vigor the offspring will have.
 
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keysbottles

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Do you get this same bump with a Balancer/Hereford cross...I guess what I'm asking is do the two breeds have to be full blood?
 

Gelbvieh 5

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Aero":3qhqpzac said:
Gelbvieh 5":3qhqpzac said:
THAT"S :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:and you know it.

uhh... nope; straight up gospel.

one day you might move beyond common knowledge. until then, do more reading and less typing.

"nope; straight up gospel". Of course that would be the Gospel according to Aero as usual!

and your arrogance is exceeded only by, :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: NOTHING!

You actually think you can make a statement that in effect negates the laws of heterosis.

"don't waste your time trying to figure out the difference between mainstream breeds; there is little difference other than color."


If so then post your little diatribe and enlighten the masses while we bask in your glow. By the way I am pretty sure the reason "common knowledge" is common is because it works.
 

3waycross

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keysbottles":4m71ndor said:
Do you get this same bump with a Balancer/Hereford cross...I guess what I'm asking is do the two breeds have to be full blood?

For my money and a lot of other folks that is the ultimate deal. The 3waycross adds the last little bit of available heterosis, and with that cross you will get growth and max your carcass traits. Personally I would much prefer a Red Gelbvieh crossed on the hereford cow then breed the resulting offspring to a hot terminal Angus bull. That gives you a red/red baldie cowherd that is more heat tolerant, has great maternal and should have real good disposition. Then the Angus gives them what the market seems to want. The blk hide. :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:
 

Kingfisher

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Isomade":2b6eksl9 said:
My personal preference would be Hereford on the maternal. Black baldies are hard to beat. Then I would use a Charolais bull. That is what my operation is now except I have a little ear on my cattle down here for heat tolerance.

Hello. Can you explain to me/us how the Charlais bull comes/works into that recipe? What happens when you breed the right Cbull on some black baldies? What is the advantage? Thanks in advance.
 

deenranch

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Kingfisher":36ymhsda said:
Isomade":36ymhsda said:
My personal preference would be Hereford on the maternal. Black baldies are hard to beat. Then I would use a Charolais bull. That is what my operation is now except I have a little ear on my cattle down here for heat tolerance.

Hello. Can you explain to me/us how the Charlais bull comes/works into that recipe? What happens when you breed the right Cbull on some black baldies? What is the advantage? Thanks in advance.

You will get some of the best calves around. Your WW will increase and red meat mass will increase...
 

Isomade

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deenranch":2euoh4r0 said:
Kingfisher":2euoh4r0 said:
Isomade":2euoh4r0 said:
My personal preference would be Hereford on the maternal. Black baldies are hard to beat. Then I would use a Charolais bull. That is what my operation is now except I have a little ear on my cattle down here for heat tolerance.

Hello. Can you explain to me/us how the Charlais bull comes/works into that recipe? What happens when you breed the right Cbull on some black baldies? What is the advantage? Thanks in advance.

You will get some of the best calves around. Your WW will increase and red meat mass will increase...
:nod: and the key words were "the right Cbull". Just because it is a Charolais don't make it good. Just what I see, is if I have the right char bulls I can increase my weaning weights by 50-75 lbs per cow for the same money I would have spent on an Angus bull. Which is what we used in the past. For the past year and a half the char calf with a black nose has been about dead even with black calves in my area.
 

VLS_GUY

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In addition to increasing performance and lean meat yield. A Charolais bull will stamp his calves with either a buckskin or smokey color. On a group of multicolored crossbred cows this gives you uniformity and breed identification no other breed can give you.
 

Stocker Steve

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3waycross":pnxz3w7h said:
For my money and a lot of other folks that is the ultimate deal. The 3waycross adds the last little bit of available heterosis, and with that cross you will get growth and max your carcass traits. Personally I would much prefer a Red Gelbvieh crossed on the hereford cow then breed the resulting offspring to a hot terminal Angus bull. That gives you a red/red baldie cowherd that is more heat tolerant, has great maternal and should have real good disposition. Then the Angus gives them what the market seems to want. The blk hide. :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

The more modern Angus I see, the more I agree with them being a good terminal cross.

Who offers a lot of GV or Limi semen? I looked in the ABS book and did not see much of a selection.
 

dun

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Stocker Steve":oh389uy7 said:
3waycross":oh389uy7 said:
For my money and a lot of other folks that is the ultimate deal. The 3waycross adds the last little bit of available heterosis, and with that cross you will get growth and max your carcass traits. Personally I would much prefer a Red Gelbvieh crossed on the hereford cow then breed the resulting offspring to a hot terminal Angus bull. That gives you a red/red baldie cowherd that is more heat tolerant, has great maternal and should have real good disposition. Then the Angus gives them what the market seems to want. The blk hide. :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

The more modern Angus I see, the more I agree with them being a good terminal cross.

Who offers a lot of GV or Limi semen? I looked in the ABS book and did not see much of a selection.
Bullbarn has a lot of Gelbvieh http://bullbarn.com/ Not sure if Cattlevisions has the same Gelbvieh bulls or not http://cattlevisions.com/Gelbvieh/gelbv ... ectory.php
 

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