Belgian cattle early 1900s

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Anonymous

in belgium we had then the spotted black and spotted red milking cattle (shorter and heavier then FH, sort of like MRY) but hey have almost disappeared. they were called "kempisch zwartbont" (black spots) and "kempisch roodbont" (red spots). for beef we had Belgian blue, which was then a dual purpose breed with sporadical double muscling. because of the selection for muscle the DM was bred through the entire line, being influenced a bit by shorthorn and devon.

hope this helps you. and why do you need this info?



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Anonymous

The reason I am requesting this info is because I own/breed the breed of dog known as Bouvier des Flandres. I've had them for a little over 20 years and use them on cattle in Texas, USA. Our cattle, obviously are not anything like what the breed was bred to work but the dogs have worked out well anyway. The old history of the Bouvier has been lost to a significant extent and I was trying to establish the breeds of livestock that the Bouvier would have been bred to work. Since the breed was formulated and type set around 1900 I was looking for cattle indicative of that day and time. This would tell me much about the herding style of the Bouvier (historically) and what should genetically be preserved in the breed for herding style, traits and set characteristics.

I am also trying to get valid information to present to the North American Working Bouvier Association as to cattle for reference as to trialing these dogs.

Pat T.

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OP
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Anonymous

> in belgium we had then the spotted
> black and spotted red milking
> cattle (shorter and heavier then
> FH, sort of like MRY) but hey have
> almost disappeared. they were
> called "kempisch
> zwartbont" (black spots) and
> "kempisch roodbont" (red
> spots). for beef we had Belgian
> blue, which was then a dual
> purpose breed with sporadical
> double muscling. because of the
> selection for muscle the DM was
> bred through the entire line,
> being influenced a bit by
> shorthorn and devon.

> hope this helps you. and why do
> you need this info?

FH cattle ???????????

MRY cattle??????????

Pat T.

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OP
A

Anonymous

i use bouviers as well, but not as much to herd as for companyonship and when i'm loading cattle.

the traits generally looked for in a bouvier are calmness when being around cattle they are working and patience. they will never try to rush things and will never bite the heels or anything like that.

the traits you should be looking for are a square dog, high on his feet, with a sound character. no agression other then normal for a shepperd dog.

they are bred in flanders, to herd beef cattle to the markets, and as our beef cattle is very quiet and big, they are bred to urge the cattle to move, but not to excite them. that's the reason why i keep them as well: because 1000kg animals should not be excited, just urged gently. i believe this is their biggest advantage over conventional herding dogs like heelers, german sheppards or anything like that.

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Anonymous

> FH cattle ???????????

Friesian holstein, skinny cloakhangers, as we call them.

> MRY cattle??????????

Maas, Rijn, Yssel: these cattle orriginated between the estuaries of these three rivers flowing through belgium and Holland. they are fleshier then the FH, without loosing too much in milking ability.

> Pat T.



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OP
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Anonymous

> i use bouviers as well, but not as
> much to herd as for companyonship
> and when i'm loading cattle.

What a small world. To make a request about cattle for reference with dogs and to find out you have the same breed of dog. How extraordinary.

We use our dogs for sport trialing in the USA as well as practical use for ranching. I have to admit the ranching use wasn't what you'd call docile though. But after dog breaking the cattle it wouldn't be near the problem. We just had some spoiled cattle when we first got the dogs back in 1981. The cattle around here can be anything from Angus to Charlais to Brahma to anything in between. Very few dairy cattle worked, if any. I've found the bouvier very nice working the pens with sheep too. Their quiet nature is exactly why we have them and keep them. Their defensive nature and willingness to protect is another reason. But next to our Kelpie and BC the Bouvier is the one asleep by comparison of energy level. They are there when we need them though.

Do you by chance know where we could get historical documentation of the type of farming done in Belgium from 1900 through the World Wars? Did farmers have just cattle or did they combine stock like sheep, chickens and cattle? Acreage worked by the dogs?

From a first hand point-of-view we use the dogs on ducks, sheep (hair and woolies) and cattle. They seem to handle themselves fairly well. Just trying to establish if this is a precident or if they have always been used this way. Eye witness accounts verify the use of the dogs for protection but few tell about their use on farms.

Pat T.

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OP
A

Anonymous

What do you get for a good pup?

> What a small world. To make a
> request about cattle for reference
> with dogs and to find out you have
> the same breed of dog. How
> extraordinary.

> We use our dogs for sport trialing
> in the USA as well as practical
> use for ranching. I have to admit
> the ranching use wasn't what you'd
> call docile though. But after dog
> breaking the cattle it wouldn't be
> near the problem. We just had some
> spoiled cattle when we first got
> the dogs back in 1981. The cattle
> around here can be anything from
> Angus to Charlais to Brahma to
> anything in between. Very few
> dairy cattle worked, if any. I've
> found the bouvier very nice
> working the pens with sheep too.
> Their quiet nature is exactly why
> we have them and keep them. Their
> defensive nature and willingness
> to protect is another reason. But
> next to our Kelpie and BC the
> Bouvier is the one asleep by
> comparison of energy level. They
> are there when we need them
> though.

> Do you by chance know where we
> could get historical documentation
> of the type of farming done in
> Belgium from 1900 through the
> World Wars? Did farmers have just
> cattle or did they combine stock
> like sheep, chickens and cattle?
> Acreage worked by the dogs?

> From a first hand point-of-view we
> use the dogs on ducks, sheep (hair
> and woolies) and cattle. They seem
> to handle themselves fairly well.
> Just trying to establish if this
> is a precident or if they have
> always been used this way. Eye
> witness accounts verify the use of
> the dogs for protection but few
> tell about their use on farms.

> Pat T.



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