BEEF producers say NO to Canadian Border

[frenchie]

oldtimer

There are many restrictions in place already against Mexican cattle- rules requiring quarantining-- hot iron branding (Mx), spaying to guarantee they don't go into the breeding herd-restricted movement to only certain states-

wow free trade at its best

 

[mwj]

Houston cutter
If you will read back up a few posts they were discussing bluetounge regulations and the changes made. Do you have any concern about the Mexican cattle that come into Texas every week to be fed and slaughtered? For extra credit can you give even a vauge guess as to what there feed regulations are and how many producers in Mexico folow them? What bse testing and tracking procedures do you think they have in place?? These cattle are in your area NOW and more come in weekly, so how close of an eye do you keep on them? By the way Mexico has beef restrictions in place against US beef, but we still alow there live cattle in without much fuss.
your friend
Mike

mwj- There are many restrictions in place already against Mexican cattle- rules requiring quarantining-- hot iron branding (Mx), spaying to guarantee they don't go into the breeding herd-restricted movement to only certain states-- Now if we get COOL up and running you would know if you are eating any of that meat that comes from those cattle........

Oldtimer I am aware that they are branded and spayed. I am also aware that they are pastured with native cattle and resold so that means they move freely among the us herd. I noticed you did not coment on what the Mexican feed regs were and wether they were folowed. What about there bse testing program??? Is there enough compliance that you are willing to give them a free pass. They come in daily but I do not here of any lawsuits to stop them. Why the double standard?
your curious friend
Mike

 

[Oldtimer]

Houston cutter
If you will read back up a few posts they were discussing bluetounge regulations and the changes made. Do you have any concern about the Mexican cattle that come into Texas every week to be fed and slaughtered? For extra credit can you give even a vauge guess as to what there feed regulations are and how many producers in Mexico folow them? What bse testing and tracking procedures do you think they have in place?? These cattle are in your area NOW and more come in weekly, so how close of an eye do you keep on them? By the way Mexico has beef restrictions in place against US beef, but we still alow there live cattle in without much fuss.
your friend
Mike

mwj- There are many restrictions in place already against Mexican cattle- rules requiring quarantining-- hot iron branding (Mx), spaying to guarantee they don't go into the breeding herd-restricted movement to only certain states-- Now if we get COOL up and running you would know if you are eating any of that meat that comes from those cattle........

Oldtimer I am aware that they are branded and spayed. I am also aware that they are pastured with native cattle and resold so that means they move freely among the us herd. I noticed you did not coment on what the Mexican feed regs were and wether they were folowed. What about there bse testing program??? Is there enough compliance that you are willing to give them a free pass. They come in daily but I do not here of any lawsuits to stop them. Why the double standard?
your curious friend
Mike

So far Mexico is BSE free- BSE has not been found in that country--same as Australia so they only have to test very few cattle-- 100's a year rather than 100,000's like the US tests since a Canadian origin cow was found in Washington.....Australia only tests around 500 cattle a year... The US has tested close to 200,000 since the Washington Canadian cow was found.......

 

[Oldtimer]

oldtimer

There are many restrictions in place already against Mexican cattle- rules requiring quarantining-- hot iron branding (Mx), spaying to guarantee they don't go into the breeding herd-restricted movement to only certain states-

wow free trade at its best

Restrictions to protect the US cattle herd health- same reason as Canada had restrictions in place against the US cattle for the last 20 years..........

 

[houstoncutter]

As many of you have stated we have Mexican beef in Texas. Do I like it, nope not one little bit. They dump their cattle on our markets if there peso starts to fall. Many of us here still remember the 94 drought and the terrible prices we were getting for cattle. The peso was dropping and they dumped on a bad market that made things get even worse. I had sold out 3 years previous to that market and bought back in at that time. Papered three in one cattle for 450$. Yes I made a lot of money on those cattle, but I dont ever what to see that market again. A lot of good ranchers that were friends went belly up. We have the market here that everyone wants to sell to, so all countries shoud meet the standards we set, and we should meet their standards to sell in there country. Of course the packers dont like that idea, they want to tell us all about that global economy thing. Funny thing, when we had more packers and agri-biz companys we made more actual dollars to put in our pockets.

 

[Texan]

Funny thing, when we had more packers and agri-biz companys we made more actual dollars to put in our pockets.

Funny thing, I don't remember it that way. Maybe you could dredge up some numbers from the Packer Haters Archives to prove your point. Seems like I remember selling some good 4 weight steer calves in the early '70s for 28 and 30 cents a pound. Cull cows were bringing 7 or 8 cents, best I recall. We had a lot more packers back then, didn't we? I don't know about you, but all of those "actual dollars" didn't last very long for me, even though I will grant you that we had much cheaper inputs.

Anyway, you packer haters always fail to address one problem with your position:

If packer concentration puts all of the cards in their hands, why don't they just beat down the price of fats to where they want it? Instead of ever having negative packer margins. Or instead of paying record prices for fat cattle while having fewer packers.

 

[houstoncutter]

I think if you will look a little you might find that in the 70s and 80s you had up cycles that that compared to our market now. Even more so if you compare what those dollars then would purchase. We have cattle cycles that normally run about 10 years. The packer has to pay the price now if they wish to kep a product in front of the American consumer and when we get on the down side of the cycle the same packer 8) will break it off in our yin yang. Why!!!!! you ask, they have no competion ,and they work real hard to keep it that way. I cant change it, but it dosent mean that I have to lay there and like it. So if the folks at R-Calf can shake their tree then count me in their fold. Do I like all of the things they stand for, no, but NCBA is just the packers and ADMs mouthpiece. As for as getting you some data to back up the price claims I will work on that next week. The white bass are running, and this cattleman is gonna wet a hook 8)

 

[Texan]

I think if you will look a little you might find that in the 70s and 80s you had up cycles that that compared to our market now.

I give up, Cutter. I've been looking. And looking. And looking. I musta misplaced the records where I sold $700 calves in the '70s and '80s.......

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

My dog didn't want to jump into this little fight, but according to CNNMoney's site, where they have a handy calculator that takes into consideration the changes in the value of money based on consumer price index:


$300 in 1980 is like $698 today !!

$300 in 1975 is like $1,042 today

$700 in 1980 is like $1,628 today

$700 in 1975 is like $2,432 today

 

[Texan]

No arguing with that, AZ. In fact, houstoncutter went on to say:

Even more so if you compare what those dollars then would purchase.

Truth is, cattle prices probably haven't kept up with the prices of most of our inputs. But, the fact remains that we have experienced record cattle prices the last few years, while having fewer packers. If the packers actually rule the world like the packer haters would have everybody believe, they would control the price they paid for fats in spite of cattle numbers.

Hey, AZ. I'm starting to have a thought. Do you think all of that inflation your numbers tell about is something else we can blame on packer concentration? Money's worth less now than when we had more packers, right? Must be their fault? ;-)

 

[houstoncutter]

Well Texan we can keep on doing it like we have over the last 20 years, and soon we will be bovine chicken farmers. I say rattle a cage, if you will remember about 5 years ago when ranchers held back calfs for one week, prices of calfs went up a nickle a pound. Nice post Ziffle, it points out the fact that I have tried to make to Texan. Namely that is that we are on the short end of the stick, and big agri-biz has got a chainsaw on the other end

 

[Medic24]

Ummm. ok. I have read the previuos posts as carefully as possible, and in my simple mind, I have to ask..........
Canada definately has a problem with BSE, they know it, we know it, the WORLD knows it, and they are suffering terribly, as fellow producers in America, we can understand that, we can feel their pain.. And keeping politics out of it.........

We got a taste of that same suffering when we lost our ability to export to part of the EU and Pacific rim countries. A wake up call for everyone, I do mean every one!
But, if we can hope to isolate the problem to where we KNOW it is or has been, why should we even consider allowing it to be brought into a business that is tetering on the edge as it is? We can't even begin to chance even one case of BSE here in the States again.

And as our northern neighbor, our good Canadian neighbors, would they really want to see that happen? It would then devastate the industry tenfold, and take away any safe haven for beef producers on the North American Continent! It would be a long time coming back from that for everyone!

To put it in even more simple terms, if my neighbor's kids had the measles, would I want to invite them over to play with our children? Of course not, not until we are completely sure there is no danger of cross infection. a better question is...If I were a good neighbor, and my kids had the measles and my neighbor didn't, as a good neighbor, I would take every measure possible to make sure my family would not infect them. Thats what good neighbors are for. I believe Canada is our good neighbor, and has the same benevolent feelings, I hope. Ok I think in more simple, human, less political ways. Sorry.
But why make sparks when there is a great chance of a fire?

 

[frenchie]

Medic24To put it in even more simple terms, if my neighbor's kids had the measles, would I want to invite them over to play with our children? Of course not, not until we are completely sure there is no danger of cross infection. a better question is...If I were a good neighbor, and my kids had the measles and my neighbor didn't, as a good neighbor, I would take every measure possible to make sure my family would not infect them. Thats what good neighbors are for

So We are all bad neighbours up here...measles get real... Britians population is over 100 million less than 100 people died as a result of Cvj

Pretty small odds

Do you think Canada is not exposing it self to risk ,by importing U.S live cattle ( bluetonque/anaplasmosis) issue.

Furthermore we continue to import cattle even though ,we don,t have the packing capacity to handle our own.never mind the imports. Why its called give and take.

There is no evidence that live feeder cattle pose any threat to your cow herds. AT 20 MONTHS THE CATTLE ARE LONG GONE.

The day U.S companies and ranchers quit exporting their goods TO Canada, Is the day I give up trying to sell my beef OR LIVE CATTLE in the U.S

Lastly if I were your neighbour, I would ,nt tell all your associates...YOUR WHOLE neighbourhood HAD AIDS ..IF ONLY ONE PERSON IN YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD HAD IT.

 

[Medic24]

Fine point frenchie, but I still stand by my post. Aids is certainly another entire sad matter.

 

[Oldtimer]

Medic24To put it in even more simple terms, if my neighbor's kids had the measles, would I want to invite them over to play with our children? Of course not, not until we are completely sure there is no danger of cross infection. a better question is...If I were a good neighbor, and my kids had the measles and my neighbor didn't, as a good neighbor, I would take every measure possible to make sure my family would not infect them. Thats what good neighbors are for

So We are all bad neighbours up here...measles get real... Britians population is over 100 million less than 100 people died as a result of Cvj

Pretty small odds

Do you think Canada is not exposing it self to risk ,by importing U.S live cattle ( bluetonque/anaplasmosis) issue.

Furthermore we continue to import cattle even though ,we don,t have the packing capacity to handle our own.never mind the imports. Why its called give and take.

There is no evidence that live feeder cattle pose any threat to your cow herds. AT 20 MONTHS THE CATTLE ARE LONG GONE.

The day U.S companies and ranchers quit exporting their goods TO Canada, Is the day I give up trying to sell my beef OR LIVE CATTLE in the U.S

Lastly if I were your neighbour, I would ,nt tell all your associates...YOUR WHOLE neighbourhood HAD AIDS ..IF ONLY ONE PERSON IN YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD HAD IT.

Frenchie- there are also two ways of playing Russian Roulette---you can go with 1 cartridge in the cylinder and 5 empty chambers or you can have 5 cartridges in the cylinder with 1 empty chamber......

With all the grey areas involved in the science of BSE I cannot for the life of me see why USDA would want to import untested OTM beef from a country with a known much higher risk factor for BSE...Altho I think the chances of humans to become infected is small- but why raise the odds and chances?..
Why place the whole US cattle and beef industry in jeopardy?

Why put another cartridge in the cylinder??????

 

[frenchie]

Medic24To put it in even more simple terms, if my neighbor's kids had the measles, would I want to invite them over to play with our children? Of course not, not until we are completely sure there is no danger of cross infection. a better question is...If I were a good neighbor, and my kids had the measles and my neighbor didn't, as a good neighbor, I would take every measure possible to make sure my family would not infect them. Thats what good neighbors are for

So We are all bad neighbours up here...measles get real... Britians population is over 100 million less than 100 people died as a result of Cvj

Pretty small odds

Do you think Canada is not exposing it self to risk ,by importing U.S live cattle ( bluetonque/anaplasmosis) issue.

Furthermore we continue to import cattle even though ,we don,t have the packing capacity to handle our own.never mind the imports. Why its called give and take.

There is no evidence that live feeder cattle pose any threat to your cow herds. AT 20 MONTHS THE CATTLE ARE LONG GONE.

The day U.S companies and ranchers quit exporting their goods TO Canada, Is the day I give up trying to sell my beef OR LIVE CATTLE in the U.S

Lastly if I were your neighbour, I would ,nt tell all your associates...YOUR WHOLE neighbourhood HAD AIDS ..IF ONLY ONE PERSON IN YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD HAD IT.

Frenchie- there are also two ways of playing Russian Roulette---you can go with 1 cartridge in the cylinder and 5 empty chambers or you can have 5 cartridges in the cylinder with 1 empty chamber......

With all the grey areas involved in the science of BSE I cannot for the life of me see why USDA would want to import untested OTM beef from a country with a known much higher risk factor for BSE...Altho I think the chances of humans to become infected is small- but why raise the odds and chances?..
Why place the whole US cattle and beef industry in jeopardy?

Why put another cartridge in the cylinder??????

Oldtimer you are all ready placing Russian Roulette with R- calf and the animal rights.Only thing is R- calf slipped the last shell in with the B.S.E issue and beef.
With all your talk , you will drag down the whole beef industry.

 

[Medic24]

I want to apologize publicly to frenchie and anyone else who may have taken any exception to my few previous remarks. They simply were not fair.

I was reminded by No.1 that 'for the grace of God go I' as well as the other adage of , 'walk a mile in the other mans mocassins before you speak', therefore. I realize, I had spoken out of fear, and possibly ignorance regarding the controversy regarding the border opening for trade of cattle, :ie BSE.

I made comment about how ones neighbors should act. (America vs. Canada) Well i was all wrong, a good neighbor would not only sympathize with the other, but also empathize as well, as we very easily literally be in the same boat overnight, and perhaps find some way to help that troubled neighbor out.

Perhaps as part of our multi-billion dollar aid package to Iraq, we should push for a large prtion of that to be food aid, ie: BEEF! We could process and ship any marketable cattle that we wish, starting with any suspected or aged cattle, thus wiping out any possible future outbreaks of BSE in North American Continent!
Maybe I not being politically correct with this suggestion, but I have never boarded the PC bus, and I won't start now. And remember they are still killing Americans everyday! I would much rather send aid through a program that benefits Americans and Canadians directly instead of simply sending cash. Sounds like a win-win situation for the beef producers of both countries to me!


Again regarding previous comments regarding our northern Neighbors......I am deeply sorry.

 

[frenchie]

Fair enough ..... Medic24... no hard feelings

 

[Oldtimer]

Perhaps as part of our multi-billion dollar aid package to Iraq, we should push for a large prtion of that to be food aid, ie: BEEF!

Medic24- Sounds great, but I wouldn't hold my breath...Last time we sent a big aid package to Afghanistan we BOUGHT all the wheat from Pakistan..While bins in the US and Canada sit full of cheap wheat- good for foreign relations, you know............

 

[frenchie]

Perhaps as part of our multi-billion dollar aid package to Iraq, we should push for a large prtion of that to be food aid, ie: BEEF!

Medic24- Sounds great, but I wouldn't hold my breath...Last time we sent a big aid package to Afghanistan we BOUGHT all the wheat from Pakistan..While bins in the US and Canada sit full of cheap wheat- good for foreign relations, you know............

Could be worse Canada sold some wheat to China and I don,t believe it ever got paid for.