Barenbrug fescue seed

[dave_shelby]

I am going to be drilling in some modified endophyte fescue in the next week or two. This is to fix up a very spotty planting I did this spring.

The seed man is pushing Barenbrug's E34 fescue. Anyone have experience with that? Other alternatives are Pennington and Martin.

 

[BlondeD]

I drilled in a mix of the E34 and Martin last fall......Mostly well pleased even though I mis-managed areas of it this summer. These areas are now staring to come back strong with the cooler nights here..... I'm currently waiting on the Pennington people to ship to my dealer and a bit more of the Martin variety to drill another area.....and also touch up spots that are thin. I'm optimistic...

 

[VaCowman]

I am going to be drilling in some modified endophyte fescue in the next week or two. This is to fix up a very spotty planting I did this spring.

The seed man is pushing Barenbrug's E34 fescue. Anyone have experience with that? Other alternatives are Pennington and Martin.

I have been involved with a few folks who have gone the novel endophyte way, myself included. From my experiences, the Pennington variety, Jessup MaxQ doesn't have the seedling vigor of the BarOptima E34 OR Martin 2 Protek. Both of the Barenbrug varieties have exhibited phenomenal seedling vigor and have both established well. Both of the JMQ plots had to be replanted. I was especially surprised with one planting of the BOE34, which was planted late and didn't get rain for 6 weeks. (And I mean, NO RAIN...not a drop) The first rain was .2" and it didn't come until the third week in November. Not the ideal time for a seedling to try and get it's feet under it. The following spring, the producer sprayed 2,4-D to clean up some winter annuals, and applied 50 units of N, and that is one of the nicest stands of grass you have ever laid eyes on. As a pure stand in year 1 (July following the October planting) the field was mowed for hay in mid June and allowed to rest until residual height of 8-10". At that time, a group of heifers were placed on the paddock (lightly stocked so not to overgraze) and those heifers gained 1.86#/d on a pure stand of BO. (no clover, etc.) The following spring, the field was frost seeded with clover and the trial was repeated the following July/Aug. That group of heifers avg. 2.28#/d. Both grazing periods were 60d. The MaxQ trials have yet to hit 2#, even with the clover added. The second seeding DID thicken up the MaxQ to a fantastic stand, but the 2X seeding cost pretty much put the seeding costs way too high. That particular producer (initial MQ) has since switched to Martin2 and BarOptima. I will say that the Martin2 seems to handle mismanagement better than the Baroptima...enough to where if I was going to plant a novel fescue into a field that may take some abuse (high traffic, feeding areas, etc.) I'd probably pick the Martin 2 over the BarOptima. In fields where you are able to manage well and keep purging in wet periods, heavy traffic to minimum, I think BO would be my pick. I have BO, but plan to put in some Martin 2Protek in the next year or so.

 

[VaCowman]

I'd also add that if you time planting around moisture, the BO will germinate very quickly. I had relatively moist soils when I planted mine, and got a 1/2" rain the day after I planted. 4 days later, I had seedlings at 1" and a week later, you could see a slight green hue to the field from a distance. (It probably did help that the entire plan from fertilizing, seeding, rain, etc. ALL hit perfectly, and you know that doesn't always happen.

 

[dave_shelby]

Appreciate all of the feedback. My usual seed dealer for the BarOptima mix did not get back and and so I ordered some Jessup from another dealer. It turns out that the original seed dealer got the seed and mixed it but failed to call. So I am stuck with two seed orders. Judging by the all of the information it looks like BarOptima is the best choice, particularly because I wont have seed until Friday, which is pushing it for this area - and its been cold so far.

 

[VaCowman]

Appreciate all of the feedback. My usual seed dealer for the BarOptima mix did not get back and and so I ordered some Jessup from another dealer. It turns out that the original seed dealer got the seed and mixed it but failed to call. So I am stuck with two seed orders. Judging by the all of the information it looks like BarOptima is the best choice, particularly because I wont have seed until Friday, which is pushing it for this area - and its been cold so far.

Good luck! If we have a relatively mild winter, I think you'll be okay. We've already had 3 frosts in my neck of the woods, but the stand I planted 3 weeks ago is really putting on a show. It is getting greener by the day. I'll hold cattle off of these fields until next year, but plan to mow a couple times next year and then stockpile it for the 2021 breeding season. Keep us posted on how your stand progresses!

 

[tom4018]

I have been impressed with the way my Martin 2 yields. Only the 2 year for it, so time will tell.

 

[Ebenezer]

I would consider Estancia, too. The yields are not the issues in all of these novel fescues. Where we lose money and pasture potential the most is on stand persistence. You mentioned one that does not do so well. I've seen that repeatedly. The row patterns are obvious 2 or 3 years after planting and performance is poor. Martin 2 has little trial data from what I saw so you are on your own there. The Baroptima Plus and Estancia have trial data. The 34 will be a short option when a drought comes to visit.

If you are not a purist, mix Estancia, Plus and Persist Orchardgrass and let 'er rip. The survivors will be there. Let them decide if they want to live or die.

But above all, you had better plan to manage better. Cattle and sheep grazing novel endophyte fescues will eat more per day, gain more per day, graze it closer than KY31 and if you have a strip grazing routine then you will need more acres or less head because they will eat it quicker and you'll need to protect the grazed portion (back wire) more from thinning out. There's no free lunch.

The most aggravation part to me that seems deceptive: how long will it be before KY31 creeps in and you need to renovate all again? I've never ever seen a guru even estimate that time period. It will happen. KY31 is the king of persistence and movement. Renovation is a huge cost , labor and missed grazing. Whatever we do, let's be economically honest about it.

 

[dave_shelby]

Interesting perspective ebenezer. Renovation is expensive and I doubt that cost + decreased revenue could be worth it. I am only spending this because its getting paid with tax dollars via NRCS as crop conversion. Based on my own very limited experience the novel endophyte fescues dont have the vigor of ky31.

If you are seeing row patterns 2-3 years out that means you are getting tillering. That requires light at base of plant. I dont see any comparison of novel endophyte fescue varieties with respect to tillering.

I am moving towards the Graze 300 program that Virginia is pushing. The largest obstacle is water and so I am getting grass growing slow towards water and rank far from it.

 

[VaCowman]

I would consider Estancia, too. The yields are not the issues in all of these novel fescues. Where we lose money and pasture potential the most is on stand persistence. You mentioned one that does not do so well. I've seen that repeatedly. The row patterns are obvious 2 or 3 years after planting and performance is poor. Martin 2 has little trial data from what I saw so you are on your own there. The Baroptima Plus and Estancia have trial data. The 34 will be a short option when a drought comes to visit.

Who has Estancia? Is it a novel or endophyte free variety? I prefer novel to keep the good characteristics of fescue.

If you are not a purist, mix Estancia, Plus and Persist Orchardgrass and let 'er rip. The survivors will be there. Let them decide if they want to live or die.

Have you tried this? I'd be curious to see how the OG persists. I know the name implies persistence, and from what data I have seen, I believe a well managed stand will do just that.

But above all, you had better plan to manage better. Cattle and sheep grazing novel endophyte fescues will eat more per day, gain more per day, graze it closer than KY31 and if you have a strip grazing routine then you will need more acres or less head because they will eat it quicker and you'll need to protect the grazed portion (back wire) more from thinning out. There's no free lunch.

:clap: Say it a little louder for those in the back. MANAGEMENT is KEY to these novel endophytes for the very reasons you mentioned. If a producer is not willing to make modifications to their grazing system to accommodate the novel endophyte varieties, my personal opinion is that they may want to look at other options. A blend is a good option to account for management, weather, etc. I like the way you think.

The most aggravation part to me that seems deceptive: how long will it be before KY31 creeps in and you need to renovate all again? I've never ever seen a guru even estimate that time period. It will happen. KY31 is the king of persistence and movement. Renovation is a huge cost , labor and missed grazing. Whatever we do, let's be economically honest about it.

Management will help, but like you say...who knows. I was able to get cost-share through NRCS to offset the major expense of establishing the novel endophyte fescue on my operation. I'd highly recommend anyone that is considering establishing a novel endophyte fescue to look into it. (I'd be glad to discuss if anyone is interested...but not sure if it is available in every state?) I know some are anti-government program, I get it, but it sure helps sometimes.

 

[Ebenezer]

If you are seeing row patterns 2-3 years out that means you are getting tillering.

It means that it has not made a full stand in 3 years. That is not a great accomplishment and never will be.

Who has Estancia? Is it a novel or endophyte free variety?

Missouri Southern Seeds and it is novel with a history back into AR from 10+ years ago. A twisted story.

Have you tried this? I'd be curious to see how the OG persists. I know the name implies persistence, and from what data I have seen, I believe a well managed stand will do just that.

Yes, the OG will establish better than the novels and will be there. We are in the southern end of the fescue belt. Good OG selections will stay but cannot yield like KY31. On the first time over in stockpiled grazing the cows will select the OG every time.

:clap: Say it a little louder for those in the back. MANAGEMENT is KEY to these novel endophytes for the very reasons you mentioned. If a producer is not willing to make modifications to their grazing system to accommodate the novel endophyte varieties, my personal opinion is that they may want to look at other options. A blend is a good option to account for management, weather, etc. I like the way you think.

The great unspoken because the seed companies are the drivers. I consider the silence on that and reinfection of KY31 to be tinged of dishonesty and half speak. High end anything will generally take more management.

Selection of animals that tolerate the KY31 is the cheapest and long term option. KY31 is king here with wise dilutions and needs met.

 

[Dale L]

Yes, I have decided to focus on cows that can thrive on K31 and forget about the rest. They are out there and I haven't found a better grass to tolerate multiple growing conditions. Thrive on what I've got or take a ride to the sale barn has become my new motto. (Except the one cow that my kids use her calf as a show calf every year.) She gets a free ride due to her calves always placing well.

 

[ClodHopper37869]

KY 31 Rules,
1. Raise your replacement heifers
2. Cull
3. Never buy a cow or bull from outside the KY 31 belt.
4. Don't even AI a bull that's never seen KY 31
5. Don't even think about a Bull from up north or out west.