Barb Wire Vs. Field Fence

[John SD]

I use woven wire anywhere I want to guarantee (hope) cattle and sheep not getting out. Have also used 8 strand hi tensile for cattle.Along the river,though,its hi tensile or barbed.Against the mountain-barbed.

I think that is exactly the point. There is no one size fits all when it comes to fencing. There are different applications where different fencing is required/desired. We have a combination of high tensile single strand hot wire, 5 strand barbed, 3 strand barbed, field fencing and use a lot of single strand hot poly for temp fences.

Good summary dun. No one size fits all. The vast majority of fences on my place and most everyone else's are still tradtional 3 strand barb wire. Some more recently built have been built as or converted to 4 wire. The standard for all new fence construction along state/county highway right of ways is 4 wire.

My winter pasture was a 2 wire fence from homestead days. Located in some rougher ground that was tougher to maintain. The folks who bought my place have taken out some fences and used the wire to upgrade those couple miles of fence to 4 wire.

If a good fence is kept up properly and a certain cow proves to be a repeat offender fence crawler, she needs to go down the road. She will teach other cows bad habits :idea:

 

[skyhightree1]

I prefer barbed over a cheap woven wire fence. But if money is no object, a good quality woven with one strand of barbed on top would be what I would go with. Unfortunately, money is always an object.

Yup. The money is no object always throws me.

Yea so if no object/deciding factor then the best field fiece out there. Unfortunately for my budget I use Barbed wire mostly and then HT.

 

[Dave]

Five strands of good quality barb wire on tee posts at 12 foot spacing. Along the river I use HT because trash doesn't build up on it as bad as barb and heaven forbid you put field fence along the river.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

This thread has some age on it, but I think it might be worth revisiting. First off, I'd like to agree that there is no silver bullet when it comes to stock fence. Each material has it's place where it outshines the others. That said, I think that net, or field fence/woven wire, has an undeserved reputation for being expensive and hard to work with. Now, I know that things aren't the same all over the world, so my formula won't work for everyone......BUT, I can build 842-12 fixed knot high tensile with a barb or hot wire on top for the same price as 6 strand barb. We build a 939-18 square knot even cheaper. The savings come with more efficient installation and bigger post spacing. Obviously you wouldn't want to space T posts out 25-30', but a 5" wood post at that spacing makes a good pasture fence. In a high pressure situation, like a weaning pen, clearly the posts would be closer together. I know that it's hard for some folks to come around to a different line of thinking, but if you ever get the chance to see HT net installed propperly, you'd likely be hooked. I know that Red Brand has a loyal following, and when Grandad was using 9ga top and bottom with 11ga filler low carbon class I hog wire, that was the best option. It just isn't anymore. Once Red Brand started showing up in the big chain farm stores, the quality became less important than the quantity. A few cents more the first time around is cheaper than building it twice. (My main problems were uneven line wire tension and premature rust) As far as repair goes, anybody with a fair amount of fence to maintain should look into keeping a few Gripples around. They make any type of fence repair quite a bit quicker and easier.
The last I knew, it was still pretty easy to get a rep from one of the big 3 to do a field day for a group of stockmen. If not, just give me a shout. My Dad would be glad to let somebody else stretch wire for a day! HA

 

[farmerjan]

One thing that has not been mentioned is what do your state or county regulations require??? Here in VA there are two conflicting laws. A Fence-in Law for certain counties and a Fence-out law for others. We are in a fence out county but also have cattle just north in a fence in county. And is the fence on the property line or not? Believe me it has caused some major problems and lawsuits over the years. Since there are people on this forum from every where it is important to know your county/state laws concerning fencing and liability....But the basics here in VA is that a fence must be a minimum of 42" high (unless in a town without specifics for that then it must be 36") with a minimum of 4 strands of barbed wire, posts 12 ft or less, or 3 boards or constructed of any other commercially accepted fencing material. So for arguments sake it has to be at least 42" high and be able to contain the animal....or repel the animal in the fence out counties.

All that said...we try to fence our animals in even though we are in a fence out county. We prefer woven wire, set as close to the ground as is practical. 1 strand barbed wire on top. Have several places where there is high tensile and HATE IT. Why, because of the coyote problem here we have had them run calves and they have tried to jump through it and have lost several over the years that the wire got twisted around their legs and hung upside down and died. Have taken dozens of deer out of it that have tried to go over and caught a leg or two and died or been so badly tore up that they had to be put down. But the biggest thing is that the coyotes and dogs can get through it, easily...and our sheep , White Dall sheep, will go through it - under it - too...We have several places that are barbed wire, but a minimum of 6 strands, and we only run cattle those places. We have some fences through steep hilly wooded terrain with the same on the other side that is still only 2 or 3 strands. Sometimes 1 or 2 strand elec for interior division fences but not for exterior permanent fence. Don't have alot of experience with the high tensile woven wire fence.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

You raise some good points, farmerjan. In Indiana, a landowner is responsible for for the half on the right while standing on his/her land, unless there is a legal arrangement between neighbors. Our fence law is a little out of date, but serves the purpose. A "legal" fence would be 47-49" woven wire with a barb on top, or a 39" woven with a barb on bottom and two on top. Posts are required to be no more than one rod on center. Board fence is also acceptable, but not a very economical option. If a landowner refuses to build their half, township trustee hires the work done, and tacks it on to their property taxes. Needless to say, the county is one of my best customers.
I share your opinion of HT plain wire. The job we are headed to in the morning is 6 strand HT for sheep. I offered 1348-12 woven (Made for sheep and goats) for $.40 more/ft, but the customer wasn't interested. I guess some people get along fine with plain wire fence, but I'm not one of them. (I've got 4 calves thru the fence this morning) Merry Christmas!

 

[farmerjan]

There are other parts to our fencing laws, that the landowner is responsible for their half on the right as yours is...UNLESS that landowner designates his land as open space and no animals and it has to be done within a certain period of when the first landowner sends written notice of intent to build the fence. Then the cost is on the one that wants the fence. But then the adjoining landowner CANNOT put animals on the other side or he is responsible for the fence retroactively....and there is a provision for agreements between landowners also. To me a 42" fence isn't high enough and I don't know anyone who builds one that short for cattle anyway.

Are the people you are going to build the HT fence for going to put electric on it? If not, then the sheep won't stay in. I have a dairy farmer that I test cows for and his brother has HT for the beef cattle and there are always calves out in the road, or into the hayfield next to them or something. If it is not HOT then the cows can just put their heads through it and keep leaning and eventually will walk through it since it "gives" and once they learn to do that good luck.
Is this 1348-12 woven a high tensile woven with 12 in stays? There is some on the one property we rent and the cows have gotten their heads through it trying to get to hay bales next to it and now have big holes opened up in it. It was there when we got the place and I am not at all impressed. We are going to have to refence that section when the hay all gets moved. You also mentioned an 18 and I am wondering if that is 18" stays or the gauge of the wire. I am old school and don't know all the terminology for all the newer types. But you get to 12" stays and then you get problems with the foxes and coyotes getting through also. We go through spells with the coyote problems but when they are around they play havoc with the animals. It is open season on them here all year.

 

[callmefence]

Majoriy of my perimeter fence is 10 strand barbwire. We've ran sheep and goats in the past and and have very few problems. Never have cattle out with the exception of a few bulls over the years that could jump like deer.
My wire cost on a 93912 with three wires and I won't build it with less even if the customer demands it . is the same as the 10 wire barbwire cost. Built on 1.44 tpost on twelve foot.
My knock against net . and I build plenty of it. Is one broken wire greats a hole that becomes a highway for deer , pigs etc. Before you know there's a hole big enough for calves to walk through. High tensil net wire is better especially for the fence builder. Stands up and grades itself. High tensil barbwire will be all I use on my own place from now on. But if you put up 15 gauge high tensile for a 75 year old central texas rancher, you won't be getting any more in that area. It just hasn't been accepted. Same with putting post 25 feet apart. They won't have it.
As far as electric. Everyone knows my opinion on electric. Its great for temporary but has no place as a permiter fence.

Also never ever use anything with 6 inch stays for goats.

The staytuff crimps great. I've got a half a case a gripples in the shop. Anybody who wants em is welcome to em

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

The nomenclature of net is the same as it's always been. 1348-12 translates to 13 line wires, 48" tall, 12" wide vertical stay spacing. The HT woven we mostly install is 12.5 ga. Beckaert and Stay Tuff still use a 12 ga top and bottom line wire, which is a holdover from the old days of low carbon wire, and CAN lead to uneven wire tension. We still use a little Stay Tuff, and it's a good product. There is plenty of lighter gauge net available, but it's really only feasible for small critters. While I certainly understand keeping predators out, they will find a way in if they want. Coyotes will jump right over a fence if they want, and a fox is smart enough to open a gate. Farmerjan, net is almost always installed improperly. I'm not saying that's the case on your rent pasture, but it's likely. When I'm done with a stretch, you can climb it between posts with no issue at all. And, yes, all of our plain wire is meant to be electrified.

Fence, you are spot on.....Just because it will work doesn't mean an old timer is buying in. I still build plenty with tight post spacing. We are using 14ga barb unless a customer demands 15.5ga. We get our 14ga in one mile rolls, so it's a tad handier for us anyhow. I'll take those Gripples off your hands! My Dad's hands don't work like they used too, so he's a big fan.

 

[JW IN VA]

I prefer barbed over a cheap woven wire fence. But if money is no object, a good quality woven with one strand of barbed on top would be what I would go with. Unfortunately, money is always an object.

+ 1
If you can afford it,a good Sta Tuff 6 or 12 inch woven field fence will last for years.I have some old Class 1 six inch stay woven that the state put up in 1975 that's still working in some places.The 12" has broken down worse and some has been replaced.All of it will probably be replaced over the next few years except for he parts I can't get into now.

 

[JW IN VA]

Five strands of good quality barb wire on tee posts at 12 foot spacing. Along the river I use HT because trash doesn't build up on it as bad as barb and heaven forbid you put field fence along the river.

Same here my previous post notwithstanding.A few strands of barb or hi tensile along the river. 2 -3 strands of barb against the woods.No cattle on that side against me.

 

[skyhightree1]

I have both but try to use woven next to roads and barbed in pastures and if running a fence through the woods H.T. it sure is nice to see your fence spring back when you pick a limb or tree off of it.

 

[skyhightree1]

Maybe the number of wires and the post spacing depend on stocking rate? If I had only 4 wires on posts 16' apart I'd have cattle out all the time, and my cattle are gentle. I build mine with at least 5 wires, and I prefer 6, and 8' post spacing.

5 strands, 10' post spacing hold mine unless a calf gets under the bottom strand. Good corners and wire tight as a banjo string are key in my part of the world. I've seen lots of woven wire used around here on hobby goat farms--they were a royal bloody mess after Hurricane Ike, with goats everywhere for 2 months. Had all mine back up in a week.

You keep goats behind barb wire?

Me? I don't do goats at all and never will. I just meant I had all my fences back up in a week.[/quote]

Goats and woven wire are no fun with those fools getting there heads through and not being able to get them out.

 

[callmefence]

5 strands, 10' post spacing hold mine unless a calf gets under the bottom strand. Good corners and wire tight as a banjo string are key in my part of the world. I've seen lots of woven wire used around here on hobby goat farms--they were a royal bloody mess after Hurricane Ike, with goats everywhere for 2 months. Had all mine back up in a week.

You keep goats behind barb wire?

Me? I don't do goats at all and never will. I just meant I had all my fences back up in a week.

Goats and woven wire are no fun with those fools getting there heads through and not being able to get them out.[/quote]


Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

 

[skyhightree1]

Goats and woven wire are no fun with those fools getting there heads through and not being able to get them out.

Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

Next goat fence I build will be welded wire with the 2"x4" sections

 

[callmefence]

Goats and woven wire are no fun with those fools getting there heads through and not being able to get them out.

Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

Next goat fence I build will be welded wire with the 2"x4" sections

4x4 is good. And it's available in net wire from Redbrand, Oklahoma, Sheffield and many others. Redbrand square deal is by far the best but they about priced themselves outta the game.
12" stays they will get caught in but usually work themselves out.
6" stays is like a gill net made for goats

 

[Atimm693]

Theres been a few times I've sawed 20" trees off of woven wire before, it just popped the clips off and folded up on the ground like an accordion. Pull it back up, new clips, done. I've been surprised with its durability.

 

[Craig Miller]

Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

You got a picture of the barb wire fence that holds in goats?

 

[callmefence]

Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

You got a picture of the barb wire fence that holds in goats?

I'm sure there's several on here somewhere Craig , but I'll be tickled to post a fresh one here in the morning

 

[callmefence]

Exactly. Especially with 6" stays..
And we always kept goats behind barbwire.

You got a picture of the barb wire fence that holds in goats?