Banding Problem?

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Lazy M

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I have seen first hand that bull calves left in tact until 500-700 lbs out perform bulls cut or banded at birth. Better performance while nursing momma, Increased weight at weaning, increased weight at yearling. Bottom line bulls develop better than steers. When a calve is born, all I need it to worry about is keeping up with momma and nursing.
I tested this with bull calves born on the same day, banded one at birth like I used to.
Left the other in tact, like ALL my other bulls, until 9 months old. Not surprisingly when I sold them all as yearlings one was noticeably more long-legged, thin, hip-boned, shallow butt, high tail head. You guessed it the one banded at birth.
I only band at weaning, and only use a calicrate bander. Assuming you have proper equipment It is also safer.
I'll agree with all this, but will point out that a good implant given to a calve when castrated/ banded will more than offset any performance loss..
 

kenny thomas

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I have seen first hand that bull calves left in tact until 500-700 lbs out perform bulls cut or banded at birth. Better performance while nursing momma, Increased weight at weaning, increased weight at yearling. Bottom line bulls develop better than steers. When a calve is born, all I need it to worry about is keeping up with momma and nursing.
I tested this with bull calves born on the same day, banded one at birth like I used to.
Left the other in tact, like ALL my other bulls, until 9 months old. Not surprisingly when I sold them all as yearlings one was noticeably more long-legged, thin, hip-boned, shallow butt, high tail head. You guessed it the one banded at birth.
I only band at weaning, and only use a calicrate bander. Assuming you have proper equipment It is also safer.
Glad it works for you. But how do you consider it safer to band a 700 lb calf than a 85lb calf? And how is it easier on the calf?
 

Lazy M

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Glad it works for you. But how do you consider it safer to band a 700 lb calf than a 85lb calf? And how is it easier on the calf?
Not Calumet but I'd say he means danger from the mama cow if you catch and band calves in the pasture.. not sure how it's easier on the calf though to castrate at 700lbs vs 85..
 

Brute 23

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I had some #700+ bulls cut by the vet a while back. He gave me a hard time and asked if we were fert testing them when he walked out.😄 They never flinched as he cut them, never skipped a beat on feed, or any thing else. I saw absolutely no difference at all.

Based off my limited experience, I would not hesitate to castrate when it is most convenient for you... in your operation. In no way would I feel like I had to do it at birth for any reason.
 

CalumetFarms

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Glad it works for you. But how do you consider it safer to band a 700 lb calf than a 85lb calf? And how is it easier on the calf?
I believe it to be safer because a newborn calf would be restrained between your legs or under your knee while the mother is pacing behind you shaking her head, literally. I do "work" newborns, I'll help dry them if it's cold/wet, eartag them if they are heifers so I can register them in case they become replacements. But otherwise if they're nursing, I'm happy to leave them be.

Aside from being arguably better for the animal, It's honestly easier to band later. We all know separating your calves at weaning is a bit of a production sometimes, getting everybody separateted and moved. I find at that time when I'm managing the herd anyway it's a good opportunity to run the calves through the chute, vaccinate, band all the bulls, pour-on, tetanus shot. You've gotta work them anyway, if you vaccinate prior to weaning most say to revaccinate at weaning.
And a day (or even just hours) of lameness would be a lot more detrimental to a newborn than a 600 lb calf.

Wouldn't you rather throw a band on from a palp cage then in the field, on top of a squirming calf.
I'd like to add, many banders, most in fact, do not tension the band properly leading to the complications I image some have seen. If green cherio bands in particular. I promise I'm not a spokesperson but Calicrate uses a loop of surgical tubing that is ratcheted to an exact tension and then crimped in place.
Just my two-cents.
 

fhug

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The only steers we have had that developed water belly were those that were banded when they were born. There is a correlation to the development of the urethra and age of castration. We have never had that issue with those that we band at 6-7 months.
 

Hpacres440p

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Thanks. The reds are really growing on me. I'm starting to care less and less about what makes packers money. Wish we had more Red Angus options in the area.
This is the worst of all commercial steers-red and half-low line (Aberdeen). 5 months old, cut 2 1/2 weeks ago. Mama is Brangus, apparently red gene carrier. He barely has started taste-testing feed-all mama and grass so far. I’ll take a bunch more like this.
 

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kenny thomas

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I believe it to be safer because a newborn calf would be restrained between your legs or under your knee while the mother is pacing behind you shaking her head, literally. I do "work" newborns, I'll help dry them if it's cold/wet, eartag them if they are heifers so I can register them in case they become replacements. But otherwise if they're nursing, I'm happy to leave them be.

Aside from being arguably better for the animal, It's honestly easier to band later. We all know separating your calves at weaning is a bit of a production sometimes, getting everybody separateted and moved. I find at that time when I'm managing the herd anyway it's a good opportunity to run the calves through the chute, vaccinate, band all the bulls, pour-on, tetanus shot. You've gotta work them anyway, if you vaccinate prior to weaning most say to revaccinate at weaning.
And a day (or even just hours) of lameness would be a lot more detrimental to a newborn than a 600 lb calf.

Wouldn't you rather throw a band on from a palp cage then in the field, on top of a squirming calf.
I'd like to add, many banders, most in fact, do not tension the band properly leading to the complications I image some have seen. If green cherio bands in particular. I promise I'm not a spokesperson but Calicrate uses a loop of surgical tubing that is ratcheted to an exact tension and then crimped in place.
Just my two-cents.
I'm definitely not saying your doing anything wrong just different. Its rare that I miss a calf at birth but if I do it never sees a band. If it gets over a day old it gets castrated with a disposable scalpel. Same for calves I buy. But a 5 wt Saturday and a friend dropped off one tonight for me to cut this weekend.
Never seen a newborn get lameness but have seen bigger calves with bands get pretty nasty.
 

Brute 23

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It's been my experience with the tri-bander that they also fall off quicker and heal better too.

If you think about it it's pretty much the same principle as applying a tourniquet. I keep ever had to practice doing those there's a reason it's always a large flat strap. Having applied a few tourniquets I can't imagine how much it would hurt to have a narrow round cord dig into you instead of the flat band.
To follow up with what you said I am seeing that exact same thing. With the tri bander in 2-3 weeks they were all done. I got to look at some of the ones that originally got the green cheerio bands and they still had a little hanging at 3-4 weeks. It was hanging by a thread... but they were not completely done.

Based on this little test run of both I would say you are spot on. The green cheerio bands take longer and there was noticeably more discomfort with them compared to the tri bander bands.
 

TCRanch

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To follow up with what you said I am seeing that exact same thing. With the tri bander in 2-3 weeks they were all done. I got to look at some of the ones that originally got the green cheerio bands and they still had a little hanging at 3-4 weeks. It was hanging by a thread... but they were not completely done.

Based on this little test run of both I would say you are spot on. The green cheerio bands take longer and there was noticeably more discomfort with them compared to the tri bander bands.
Thanks for the follow up. Working the calves & banding in 9 days. Generally reserve the tri bander for the larger bull calves but I've never made the comparison. They're all getting it this time.
 

Shoestring

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Doesn't matter how big you are, mama is always bigger. Some of my moms just don't want you messin with their young'uns. I will oblige their wishes. The calf can wait.

I like the safety and ease of a squeeze chute.
I got rid of 2 pair for that reason. It's just me, and a Prayer. and I was noticing that those 2 were turning others wild and mean, and couldn't pen. The one I get most advice from said he has worked cows 60 yrs. Like kids, bad habit cows turn good cows bad. I sold those 2 and the 2 that were getting wild. Hated it, all were big Angus. But all that I have now come right to the pen.
 

Hpacres440p

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Works great unless someone doesn’t tighten the chock, or isn’t aggressive with the speed. The ones we had done at fast speed flung off like a fat kid on a merry go round. The slower speed one didn’t bother the calf any worse, but didn’t twist the vessels as well-bled more.
 

Jafruech

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To follow up with what you said I am seeing that exact same thing. With the tri bander in 2-3 weeks they were all done. I got to look at some of the ones that originally got the green cheerio bands and they still had a little hanging at 3-4 weeks. It was hanging by a thread... but they were not completely done.

Based on this little test run of both I would say you are spot on. The green cheerio bands take longer and there was noticeably more discomfort with them compared to the tri bander bands.

Thanks! Always nice to get affirmation that I'm not crazy 😂
 

TCRanch

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Worked them Sunday and only 3 small bull calves got the cheerio, the rest got the Tri Bander. Seeing the most discomfort in my largest calves but not uncommon and I'm pouring Banamine Transdermal before I make them get up, move around. I'll be full-on Nut Patrol in 2 weeks, waiting for them to start dropping!
 

Brute 23

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Worked them Sunday and only 3 small bull calves got the cheerio, the rest got the Tri Bander. Seeing the most discomfort in my largest calves but not uncommon and I'm pouring Banamine Transdermal before I make them get up, move around. I'll be full-on Nut Patrol in 2 weeks, waiting for them to start dropping!
That's awesome. We will have several people who did a comparison.

Looking forward to getting your thoughts. 😁
 

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