Banding or Castration?

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Angus Cowman":1magw3wm said:
Wisteria Farms":1magw3wm said:
Well...I'm going to go out on a limb here.. We wait to band til 7-8 months old (sometimes longer). Use the Calcitrate bander and have had no problems as long as you get low on the sack. We feel we get a little more growth out of them... At weaning all the boys are pastured/fed together. The ones we keep as bulls (usually only 1 or 2) are kept seperate and on a different feed regimine (fed a little more to aid in development).
I do like you
I had always knife cut until 2 yrs ago and the mud and flies were bad so I decided to band and I really liked how the calves didn't stress

Only thing I don't like about the calicrate is the cost of the bands

used those a couples times to help my uncle band some bulls. this year i got a XL bander. the bands were alot cheaper i think about $1 per band. i found it a little easier to use than fumbling around with trying to tighten up the other bands while keeping sack in there when they are moving or trying to kick.
 
As I breed Stud bulls I wait as long as possible before cutting them. Its risky if they get over 12 months old.Not from germs or flies but from loss of blood. If they keep getting up and down overnight they can keep opening the wound up.

I was taught to put them in a crush , get someone to pull the tail up high which hurts some and takes the mind off what I'm doing. grab the testicles thumb and first finger down ,turn them upwards and squeeze some to get the lower skin tight, make two cuts about 1 1/2 '' each right into the testicle too and squeeze each testicle out , slide hand down to grab testicles ,pull them downwards and sever the strings in an upward movement toward you away from your hand . Try to make the cut through the strings a serrated , diagonal type of cut to assist clotting.

Toss em to the dogs and your done ,nothing else needed ,cuts on the bottom drain well.
 
I always used the cheap elastrator bands, I've never missed one, my dad has a number of times... I usually do it on the second day, but if it's possible and the calf looks like a wild one, I'll do it at birth, on the other hand, if he's a really tame guy, I'll wait a few days, and while he's laying down do it with out even rolling him over... as long as you can count to 2, you should be OK.. One note I'd like to add for that is that I try and leave some slack in the sack, putting the band halfway between the top of the testicles and the belly so as not to squeeze them. If you have a calf that is a bit slow to suck and may be really susceptible to more stress, then wait a bit longer to band him.
A vet will tell you many things, like the tetanus vaccine after, etc.. they also say you should wait 2 weeks between your Vitamin A & D shot and your Selenium/Vit E shot.. but what they never say is the probability of a complication... I'd say it would be good practice to dip the band in iodine perhaps, but in approximately 200 steers I've banded, not one has ever had any complication.. One thing I do that nobody ever seems to mention is I drip a few drops of iodine on the eartag male pin, as I've had a few ears get infected...
there's my 2 cents and 2000 words
 
I was taught to cut on the waning moon. Has anyone else heard of that? I try to do everything that deals with nature by the moon phases.
 
highgrit":3epjurud said:
I was taught to cut on the waning moon. Has anyone else heard of that? I try to do everything that deals with nature by the moon phases.
I used to, now I band 99% of the time so it doesn;t matter. We used to slap a handfull of pinetar on the cut too, but all that was 50 years ago.
 
We've ALWAYS used the XL Bander to band. NEVER had any complications. The calves very rarely notice that we're messing with their marbles. Afterwards, give a Tetanus Antitoxin injection. Yes, banding costs a few cents...so what! Of course a knife only needs re-sharpening and just "keeps going and going"...lol.

IMO to "cut" is to open the door to infection as well as messy and tends to stress the animal...and occasionally stress the "cutter".
 
Nesikep":vl49fc6x said:
I always used the cheap elastrator bands, I've never missed one, my dad has a number of times... I usually do it on the second day, but if it's possible and the calf looks like a wild one, I'll do it at birth, on the other hand, if he's a really tame guy, I'll wait a few days, and while he's laying down do it with out even rolling him over... as long as you can count to 2, you should be OK.. One note I'd like to add for that is that I try and leave some slack in the sack, putting the band halfway between the top of the testicles and the belly so as not to squeeze them. If you have a calf that is a bit slow to suck and may be really susceptible to more stress, then wait a bit longer to band him.
A vet will tell you many things, like the tetanus vaccine after, etc.. they also say you should wait 2 weeks between your Vitamin A & D shot and your Selenium/Vit E shot.. but what they never say is the probability of a complication... I'd say it would be good practice to dip the band in iodine perhaps, but in approximately 200 steers I've banded, not one has ever had any complication.. One thing I do that nobody ever seems to mention is I drip a few drops of iodine on the eartag male pin, as I've had a few ears get infected...
there's my 2 cents and 2000 words

thats what we use on calves too. never had a problem and never gave a shot either. but we do give the shot if banding older bulls 9 months to yearlings.
 
I'd say you'd have to be more wary of tetanus by cutting rather than banding.. sounds more logical to me that if you have an open wound you'd open to door to infection more than a rubber band.

I've got my reservations about advice from vets... I had an adult cow dehorned once, and the vet said I didn't need to do anything to the wound (this was done in Feb.)... well, come may, she got flies laying eggs in there, and I had a nightmare for 2 months to get her cleaned up, and with all that stress, she didn't rebreed... so I lost a perfectly good cow to his advice... Of course once there's a problem, he'd tell me to give tetracycline, etc and err on the side of caution every time, but I got her fixed back up with a lot of iodine, alcohol, and bandages smeared with pine pitch and beeswax... once the wounds were clean, she healed up really fast and it was surprising
 
Nesikep":s9bq2dac said:
I'd say you'd have to be more wary of tetanus by cutting rather than banding.. sounds more logical to me that if you have an open wound you'd open to door to infection more than a rubber band.

I've got my reservations about advice from vets... I had an adult cow dehorned once, and the vet said I didn't need to do anything to the wound (this was done in Feb.)... well, come may, she got flies laying eggs in there, and I had a nightmare for 2 months to get her cleaned up, and with all that stress, she didn't rebreed... so I lost a perfectly good cow to his advice... Of course once there's a problem, he'd tell me to give tetracycline, etc and err on the side of caution every time, but I got her fixed back up with a lot of iodine, alcohol, and bandages smeared with pine pitch and beeswax... once the wounds were clean, she healed up really fast and it was surprising
I don;t understand why it hadn;t healed up completely by May. It shouldn;t take more then a month
 
I don't know either really, I mean there was no flesh for the skin to grow over, just bone.. she had damned big horns too (knew how to use them), I think they were close to 3 ft tip to tip

this was a year before the dehorning
xmastime2005003.jpg


and with the bandages
Lillooetjn22006028.jpg
 
Nesikep":1knpflow said:
I'd say you'd have to be more wary of tetanus by cutting rather than banding.. sounds more logical to me that if you have an open wound you'd open to door to infection more than a rubber band.

I've got my reservations about advice from vets... I had an adult cow dehorned once, and the vet said I didn't need to do anything to the wound (this was done in Feb.)... well, come may, she got flies laying eggs in there, and I had a nightmare for 2 months to get her cleaned up, and with all that stress, she didn't rebreed... so I lost a perfectly good cow to his advice... Of course once there's a problem, he'd tell me to give tetracycline, etc and err on the side of caution every time, but I got her fixed back up with a lot of iodine, alcohol, and bandages smeared with pine pitch and beeswax... once the wounds were clean, she healed up really fast and it was surprising

When you dehorn, especially older animals, you need to pack the sinus with pine tar to keep the flies out.

If it does become infected/infested (because you left it open) dump a bottle of hydrogen peroxide in the sinus. Clear it right up. :cowboy:

No worries about tetanus with cutting. Cut is clean and it drains instead of festering. The only worry is blood loss (which is always at the back of my mind). I had real good luck with cutting up till last fall. I cut my fall calves with my usual Newberry knife and crushed/cut the cords with an emasculator. Well, next morning, I woke up to two dead calves (I felt sick) :frowns: . They had been bleeding a bit after the procedure, but nothing too major. It was a cold November night (froze) and I think they kept getting up and down all night which, as tytower mentioned, can open the wound up. Also, aggressive licking by the calf and cow will keep the blood flowing.

I always liked cutting because it has a fraction of the recovery time that banding has. Banded calves will spend 2 weeks continually getting up and lying down because they are so uncomfortable. Cut calves will be back to normal within a couple days.

I am a little gun shy about cutting now and will go back to banding, opting for the XL bands, as the green 'cheerios' break way to often and I have ended up in the past with sick calves where the band only lasted 1/2 as long as it should, breaks, and the calf ends up walking around with a 1/2 rotten piece of flesh dangling.
 
yep, I did use a lot of hydrogen peroxide as well

I've never had a problem with the bands breaking.. and from what I can tell, the calves aren't that uncomfortable with it, though I avoid banding calves that are already weak... the biggest problem is missing 1 testicle, and my dad had lots of them, so far I've been lucky. I'm also finding that I can band a lot of them while they're laying down (assuming they don't get up when I come around to begin with).

If you have problem with bands breaking, maybe you could put 2 of them on there... for the discomfort, I found the biggest factor is not putting the band too high or too low as the biggest factor.. Once I tag them they usually forget what I did at the hind end anyhow :p
 
I've cut mine since beginning in late '60's, now I band in the shoot with the california bander. Simple & less expensive then the "no bull" calicrate. I also wait til weaning as the weather is cooler here & no insects to cause a problem. The bulls show more muscling at this time also.
 
I use an emasculator - bloodless castrator - burdizoo. I find it to be less stressfull for the calf then banding. Occasionally they will swell up and act uncomfortable for a few days after but not like with banding, when they can have infection and discomfort weeks later. The biggest drawback is that with the emasculator, you can't see if the animal is done properly until months afterwards because his scrotum remains. Also if you get the anatomy really wrong you can kill them.
 
cowpunk'd":21bove0n said:
I use an emasculator - bloodless castrator - burdizoo. I find it to be less stressfull for the calf then banding. Occasionally they will swell up and act uncomfortable for a few days after but not like with banding, when they can have infection and discomfort weeks later. The biggest drawback is that with the emasculator, you can't see if the animal is done properly until months afterwards because his scrotum remains. Also if you get the anatomy really wrong you can kill them.
Well that leaves me out! I'd prolly cut my finger off.........or worse :)
 
I always use a good sharp knife. I prefer a case knife. I do it when they are 4 to 6 months old. Its a very simple procedure and once you do it a couple times it's a piece of cake. The way I do it is I cut off about a 1/3 of the lower scrotum, if you don't cut off enough there is like some sort of membrane that makes it a bit more difficult to get the testicles out. Plus this method allows for good drainage. Then I work one testicle out through the scrotal opening, I pull the spermatic cord out enough that i can wrap my index finger with it and continue to pull the cord untill it snaps. When it pulls loose the remainder recoils back into his belly minimizing bleeding. I drop the testicle into a pail of very salty water and repeat for the other testicle. I take the testicles home clean them good dip them in a milk and egg mixture, roll in flour and fry them up. Absolutely delicious.
 
Aaron":2d2lyrc9 said:
Nesikep":2d2lyrc9 said:
I'd say you'd have to be more wary of tetanus by cutting rather than banding.. sounds more logical to me that if you have an open wound you'd open to door to infection more than a rubber band.

I've got my reservations about advice from vets... I had an adult cow dehorned once, and the vet said I didn't need to do anything to the wound (this was done in Feb.)... well, come may, she got flies laying eggs in there, and I had a nightmare for 2 months to get her cleaned up, and with all that stress, she didn't rebreed... so I lost a perfectly good cow to his advice... Of course once there's a problem, he'd tell me to give tetracycline, etc and err on the side of caution every time, but I got her fixed back up with a lot of iodine, alcohol, and bandages smeared with pine pitch and beeswax... once the wounds were clean, she healed up really fast and it was surprising

When you dehorn, especially older animals, you need to pack the sinus with pine tar to keep the flies out.

If it does become infected/infested (because you left it open) dump a bottle of hydrogen peroxide in the sinus. Clear it right up. :cowboy:

No worries about tetanus with cutting. Cut is clean and it drains instead of festering. The only worry is blood loss (which is always at the back of my mind). I had real good luck with cutting up till last fall. I cut my fall calves with my usual Newberry knife and crushed/cut the cords with an emasculator. Well, next morning, I woke up to two dead calves (I felt sick) :frowns: . They had been bleeding a bit after the procedure, but nothing too major. It was a cold November night (froze) and I think they kept getting up and down all night which, as tytower mentioned, can open the wound up. Also, aggressive licking by the calf and cow will keep the blood flowing.

I always liked cutting because it has a fraction of the recovery time that banding has. Banded calves will spend 2 weeks continually getting up and lying down because they are so uncomfortable. Cut calves will be back to normal within a couple days.

I am a little gun shy about cutting now and will go back to banding, opting for the XL bands, as the green 'cheerios' break way to often and I have ended up in the past with sick calves where the band only lasted 1/2 as long as it should, breaks, and the calf ends up walking around with a 1/2 rotten piece of flesh dangling.

Have you thought about giving a shot of Vitamin K. Pretty cheap and helps clot blood. We also will take a twine string and tie it around the left over sac and cinch it tight to cut off blood flow to help them clot if they wont stop bleeding. We don't tie string on every one we castrate cause that would take forever. We try to castrate early in the morning so that we can watch for bleeders as the day goes on and then if we do have one give them another shot of vitamin K and tie the sac if needed.
 
another way to help decrease bleeding is to staple the cords and then cut below the staples works great
just use a regular desk stapler
have cut 1000s of head using this method was taught that trick by a vet I worked for yrs ago
just strip the fat down on the cords staple and cut below the staples
 
We run yearlings that come out of the sale barn an I prefer cow calf people to knife cut their calves because when you pull them both out you know they're a steer. We cut calves weighing 8-850 without any trouble the main problem people make for themselves is not cutting all the fat out of the sac. Removing all the fat allows it to bleed out properly to avoid swelling
 

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