Baldy breeding question

[SRBeef]

I have a black baldy heifer out of one of my best Hereford cows that I bought bred. The dam is one you'd like to have a whole herd of. The baldy heifer however looks good (conformation) but has an attitude problem. Always hanging back, last one to come/first to scatter and generally not with the program.

Question is if I breed this baldy heifer to my "good disposition" registered Hereford bull, what am I likely to get? How dominant is the Angus color and attitude of the heifers sire? I'd sure like to keep any genetics I can out of the original dam but not if they all inherit the disposition problem. Would the heifer's 3/4 hereford, 1/4 angus calf have hereford or baldy color and markings?

I've been planning on culling this heifer this week but need to get some other opinions. Thank you for any help for a beginner.

 

[VanC]

I don't know of any dominance when it comes to disposition, so as far as that goes, it could go either way. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Since the calf would be 3/4 Hereford it would more than likely be marked like a Hereford, but that's not set in stone, either. As far as color goes, it depends on which gene your baldy heifer passes on. She carries a red gene and a black gene. Since black is dominant, her coat is black, but she still carries a red gene from her dam. The bull will pass a red gene. If the baldy passes the red gene then the calf will be red. If she passes the black gene then it will be black. 50/50 chance either way. In other words, it's pretty much a crap shoot. ;-)

 

[cfpinz]

Cows are like women. It don't matter how good they look, if they don't work what good are they?

 

[JHH]

Cows are like women. It don't matter how good they look, if they don't work what good are they?

I sure hope that my wife doesn't read that, she would be mad. Although she does work. But I might have to agree a little

As for the calf It can go either way. Most likely a hereford marked calf and would most likely be ok

 

[dun]

You may end up with a genuine black Hereford marked calf We had an F1 baldy that never had a calf with a single white hair on it. We bred her to a Hereford and ended up with the most open marked Hereford I've ever seen. The color will be red or black 50:50 chance.
Dispostion is one of those deals that I wonder about the heritability. We have a couple of pain in butt freindly cows that have cows that are wild as geese. One cow we had turned into a lunatic and would stalk my wife and charge anyone except me. Her dauther is too calmk and tame, she's alwasy underfoot and if you don;t pay attention she will attack you with that big old sandpaper tongue. Can;t be herded anywhere, too curios about what you're doing back there. Never messed with her but she's been like that since birth.

 

[KNERSIE]

I am sure disposition is at least somewhat heritable. The big old bull I posted recently is one of those pain in the butt calm bulls. He was bought to be used in two small herds, one of which is mostly brahman. The owner of the mostly brahman herd commented the other day when they picked their next bull out how much calmer the hereford sired calves were compared to the brahman sired calves.

All that said I think disposition is also somewhat of a learned condition, calves will pick nasty habits up from their dams and definately from the way they were treated in the past. And just when you think you have it all figured out one will come and completely disprove everything you thought you knew.

 

[grubbie]

All that said I think disposition is also somewhat of a learned condition, calves will pick nasty habits up from their dams and definately from the way they were treated in the past.

Couldn't agree more. We don't keep wild critters for that reason. That baldy calf may have good genetics but if she stays wild, she will raise her calves to be wild, guaranteed. I would try to get her calmed down, which you should be able to do, but if not I would ship her without a second thought. Nothin p's me off more than that one cow that's always tryin to turn out on me when I'm tryin to move the herd. Puts the rest of the herd in a nervous state chasin that one back and forth.

 

[SRBeef]

All that said I think disposition is also somewhat of a learned condition, calves will pick nasty habits up from their dams and definately from the way they were treated in the past.

Couldn't agree more. We don't keep wild critters for that reason. That baldy calf may have good genetics but if she stays wild, she will raise her calves to be wild, guaranteed. I would try to get her calmed down, which you should be able to do, but if not I would ship her without a second thought. Nothin p's me off more than that one cow that's always tryin to turn out on me when I'm tryin to move the herd. Puts the rest of the herd in a nervous state chasin that one back and forth.

That is exactly the situation - this one makes the rest of the herd more nervous. And I've had the heifer since she was born so its genetics, not treatment. She's been treated just like the rest.

Thanks for clarifying the situation - she goes as originally planned.

I can also relate to the comment above about women - recalling dates many years ago with a few with "good conformation" but were "hard doers" with disposition problems and definitely not keepers... Better not follow this analogy too much further...my dear wife might come up with some analogies of her own!

 

[KNERSIE]

Depending on how much time you want to spend you could halterbreak her. It usually helps to calm them down and once she'd learned that she can depend on you for the groceries the behaviour problems are usually something from the past.

I bought 16 heifers about 7 years ago and 4 of them never calmed down. Granted I didn't put any effort into getting them calm. 2 of that 4 are still here, much better than they once were, but still not close to what the rest of the herd is. The wildest of those 4 had a dandy of a heifer calf in 2004, I retained her and although not a puppy dog she is very gentle. She had a very good heifer in 2007 that I also retained, the plan was to put her in the showstring. After tying her up for 4 times I named her Lucy (short for Lucifer) and decided she won't be shown after all. She is the only calf of her sire with that kind of disposition and I've had alot of calves out of him overa 5 year period. So genetics definately play a role, but it might well be one or even a few recessive genes.

 

[novatech]

I am sure disposition is at least somewhat heritable. The big old bull I posted recently is one of those pain in the butt calm bulls. He was bought to be used in two small herds, one of which is mostly brahman. The owner of the mostly brahman herd commented the other day when they picked their next bull out how much calmer the hereford sired calves were compared to the brahman sired calves.

All that said I think disposition is also somewhat of a learned condition, calves will pick nasty habits up from their dams and definately from the way they were treated in the past. And just when you think you have it all figured out one will come and completely disprove everything you thought you knew.

I have raised a lot of F1 Brafords. All the Brahmans were calm, gentle, easy working cattle. The Hereford bulls were the same. There is something going on when you cross them. I have always attributed it to heterosis. Could be wrong there. There are select cows that always produced easy going F1's with very good temperaments. This would indicate heritability.
I agree that you can train a better temperament into a cow/bull but I sure do prefer the genetic selection.
As a side note I have found that the cattle with better temperaments are more fertile and they score better on the tenderness and quality end of the GeneStar tests.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I raised my own F1 braford's , they hit the ground full of pi$$ and vinager.. but usually settled down after the second calf. brahman's are intelligent cattle and have keen sence at smelling a rat. but its like it wakes a sleeping giant with that cross.....

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

Yea, all that makes sense above and I'd like to agree on the heritability thing but I have one exception. Out of the dozen brahman females I've got only one that has a bad attitude(runs everybody out of the pasture except me). However she has produced three heifer calves and each one is always the first one in the calf crop to try and lick my skin off...same gentle hereford bull across the board.