Balancer bulls

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dun

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Just cows. An the last of them will be heading down the road soon. Even though they were from mederate sized Gelbviehs and a smallish Red Angus bull, they turn out 1600 lb cows. But boy do they raise great calves when bred back to a Red Angus bull.

dun


D.R. Cattle":3f3u0u9v said:
Anyone using Balancer genetics?
 
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D.R. Cattle

D.R. Cattle

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Thanks Dun. Not that I am quick to act, but thoughts always cross the mind. My cows are all Braford, with Angus bulls on them. Only one exceptions, a Maine Angus F1 bull. The age old problem of yield AND quality. The Angus bulls throwing nice calves but smaller weaners. The Maine throwing very blocky calves, eventually large but slow to get there. For the time being, the Angus quality is bleeding through. Curiously I wonder how a black balancer would do on the seasoned Brafords, while keeping straight Angus on the heifers. I posted something a while back about composites from a ranch down here. Their composite is in exact proportions to what I would get if I put a balancer on board, with the exception of them using red angus as opposed to me trying it in black. Wonder if the black angus quality would still shine through with this type of bull sevicing?
 

A. delaGarza

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why not a Red Simmangus instead of a Balancer? or use Tarentaise (yield and quality are well balanced) I've done it with Simbrah cows. The calves are red with white foreheads. I've pics, wil you like to see them, I could e-mail them.


D.R. Cattle":1jzydqm5 said:
Thanks Dun. Not that I am quick to act, but thoughts always cross the mind. My cows are all Braford, with Angus bulls on them. Only one exceptions, a Maine Angus F1 bull. The age old problem of yield AND quality. The Angus bulls throwing nice calves but smaller weaners. The Maine throwing very blocky calves, eventually large but slow to get there. For the time being, the Angus quality is bleeding through. Curiously I wonder how a black balancer would do on the seasoned Brafords, while keeping straight Angus on the heifers. I posted something a while back about composites from a ranch down here. Their composite is in exact proportions to what I would get if I put a balancer on board, with the exception of them using red angus as opposed to me trying it in black. Wonder if the black angus quality would still shine through with this type of bull sevicing?
 
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D.R. Cattle

D.R. Cattle

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I'm not well versed on the continental breeds. If Simm is good, then great. I would depend on a local supplier to fill that void with the bulls. I haven't heard of any Simm Angus breeders? I think the ideal situation would be for me to find the F1 semen, rather than buying the bull. Then retain the heifers, AI the originals again with different genetics and make my own bulls, etc. etc? Just thinking for the moment.
 

A. delaGarza

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ABS has a Black Simm-Angus bull, check with Amazed (his a registered member) maybe he could have some Red Simm-Angus bulls or semen for sale since he is a Simmental and Red Angus breeder in Canada.

D.R. Cattle":2lwc77qw said:
I'm not well versed on the continental breeds. If Simm is good, then great. I would depend on a local supplier to fill that void with the bulls. I haven't heard of any Simm Angus breeders? I think the ideal situation would be for me to find the F1 semen, rather than buying the bull. Then retain the heifers, AI the originals again with different genetics and make my own bulls, etc. etc? Just thinking for the moment.
 

Oldtimer

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A. delaGarza":1ur44rtd said:
ABS has a Black Simm-Angus bull, check with Amazed (his a registered member) maybe he could have some Red Simm-Angus bulls or semen for sale since he is a Simmental and Red Angus breeder in Canada.

D.R. Cattle":1ur44rtd said:
I'm not well versed on the continental breeds. If Simm is good, then great. I would depend on a local supplier to fill that void with the bulls. I haven't heard of any Simm Angus breeders? I think the ideal situation would be for me to find the F1 semen, rather than buying the bull. Then retain the heifers, AI the originals again with different genetics and make my own bulls, etc. etc? Just thinking for the moment.

We have quite a few simmental breeders up here that breed black simm/angus crosses. They sell fullblood simmentals, fullblood angus and bulls that are anywhere from a 1/4 angus to 3/4 angus bulls. I've used a few 1/4 blood black simmi bulls and were happy with them. Thirty years ago when the continental fad was so hot I used some 1/2 simmental 1/2 hereford bulls on some hereford cows- their heifer calves made some great cows.
 

dun

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I spoke to the ABS genetic wizards in WI last year and they said they were working on devloping some Balancers. Haven't seen the new catalog and haven't checked out their website lately so don;t know if they have gotten there yet.

dun


D.R. Cattle":1kff8xv2 said:
I'm not well versed on the continental breeds. If Simm is good, then great. I would depend on a local supplier to fill that void with the bulls. I haven't heard of any Simm Angus breeders? I think the ideal situation would be for me to find the F1 semen, rather than buying the bull. Then retain the heifers, AI the originals again with different genetics and make my own bulls, etc. etc? Just thinking for the moment.
 

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A. delaGarza":1tvlzb81 said:
ABS has a Black Simm-Angus bull, check with Amazed (his a registered member) maybe he could have some Red Simm-Angus bulls or semen for sale since he is a Simmental and Red Angus breeder in Canada.

D.R. Cattle":1tvlzb81 said:
I'm not well versed on the continental breeds. If Simm is good, then great. I would depend on a local supplier to fill that void with the bulls. I haven't heard of any Simm Angus breeders? I think the ideal situation would be for me to find the F1 semen, rather than buying the bull. Then retain the heifers, AI the originals again with different genetics and make my own bulls, etc. etc? Just thinking for the moment.

Thanks for the referal Al but we don't collect semen on our F1s and there are no cattle moving out of Canada yet.

D.R. Cattle, a red Simm/Angus would work well for you and if you are interested I could give you a couple of names of American outfits that might have semen and definitley bulls.
 
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D.R. Cattle

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Thanks. I would appreciate that information. Checked out the ABS site and all they are advertising right now is a Black SimmAngus. I checked out the stats on Pfred while I was there. Wow! Makes you wonder why you would add Continental blood if you had that performance from Angus?
 

dun

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That's the beauty of the more common breeds. You can get anything you want within the breed. Cross for a little heterosis in the cow herd and unless you have a market for select beef, you can do pretty darn well that way.

dun


D.R. Cattle":1hn0jri6 said:
Thanks. I would appreciate that information. Checked out the ABS site and all they are advertising right now is a Black SimmAngus. I checked out the stats on Pfred while I was there. Wow! Makes you wonder why you would add Continental blood if you had that performance from Angus?
 
A

Anonymous

DR -- I've been buried with work for a few weeks now (my "real" job is as a CPA) but I checked in this morning for a little change of pace and see this discussion about Simangus. It would be a bit of a drive, but I know there is a guy in Adams, Nebraska (I think that's about 30 miles from Lincoln) that sort of specializes in Simangus these days. But I think that they are now virtually all black. Some years ago he was into 50/50 Hereford/Simmental crosses but now has gone Black Simmie/Black Angus. Anyway, for many years now he has sold around 30 bulls each year at a sale I attend in southeast Texas and his bulls apparently do just fine down here along the coast. I've come close, but have never bought one of his, so I can't speak from direct personal experience. I would imagine they would do equally well in your environment. If you have any interest you may want to try to contact Lavern Nieveen in Adams, Nebraska. Sorry , but I don't have his phone number readily available. Regards, Arnold Ziffle
 
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Anonymous

[quote :lol: ="D.R. Cattle"]Anyone using Balancer genetics?[/quote]

A lot of the big commercial operations in ND, SD, NE, CO, MO, etc. love their Balancer mama cows. They get the marbling and lower birth weights from the Angus, and the good beef yield, excellent disposition, and milk from the Gelbvieh. Both Angus and Gelbvieh cows are good mothers so the cross is especially good.
 

dun

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I really like the calves but the mature size of the cows is a real drawback in our environment. They do make excellent momma cows but 1600-1800 lbs just doesn;t get the job done on our forage base.

dun

Dav":3i5tjugq said:
[quote :lol: ="D.R. Cattle"]Anyone using Balancer genetics?

A lot of the big commercial operations in ND, SD, NE, CO, MO, etc. love their Balancer mama cows. They get the marbling and lower birth weights from the Angus, and the good beef yield, excellent disposition, and milk from the Gelbvieh. Both Angus and Gelbvieh cows are good mothers so the cross is especially good.[/quote]
 
A

Anonymous

I've had Balancer cows that were a 5 frame and 1300 pounds. They are deep, wide bodies that milk well and raise dandy calves. Dun, if you were getting that big of females out of "moderate sized" Gelbviehs they must have had some really big framed animals not too far back in their pedigrees.

Granted 15 years ago it was more difficult to find a whole lot of true moderate framed Gelbviehs, but in the past several years many Gelbvieh producers have recognized the need to downsize and there are now lots of good Gelbvieh bulls available that are moderate framed and breed true, siring moderate framed, easy fleshing cattle consistently.

dun":3is87gm2 said:
Just cows. An the last of them will be heading down the road soon. Even though they were from mederate sized Gelbviehs and a smallish Red Angus bull, they turn out 1600 lb cows. But boy do they raise great calves when bred back to a Red Angus bull.

dun


D.R. Cattle":3is87gm2 said:
Anyone using Balancer genetics?
 

dun

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She's probably about a FS 6 maybe 6.5 but she has low ground clearence and so darn wide she has to squeeze through alleyways. Also she has a but that makes Mama Cass look like Twiggy. But at her weight and bulk she has to take a lot of groceries. I've seen bulls that are being used in some studs that don't have the butt she has. And she does raise great calves, as a matte of fact she's in labor right now. Hope I get a heifer this time, she's alwasy had bulls in the past.

dun

Indiana Gary":y9vt6vle said:
I've had Balancer cows that were a 5 frame and 1300 pounds. They are deep, wide bodies that milk well and raise dandy calves. Dun, if you were getting that big of females out of "moderate sized" Gelbviehs they must have had some really big framed animals not too far back in their pedigrees.

Granted 15 years ago it was more difficult to find a whole lot of true moderate framed Gelbviehs, but in the past several years many Gelbvieh producers have recognized the need to downsize and there are now lots of good Gelbvieh bulls available that are moderate framed and breed true, siring moderate framed, easy fleshing cattle consistently.

dun":y9vt6vle said:
Just cows. An the last of them will be heading down the road soon. Even though they were from mederate sized Gelbviehs and a smallish Red Angus bull, they turn out 1600 lb cows. But boy do they raise great calves when bred back to a Red Angus bull.

dun


D.R. Cattle":y9vt6vle said:
Anyone using Balancer genetics?
 

Jake

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We had a 1/4 gelbvieh second calf heifer that wasn't too terribly tall but she is muscled and fat. never loses the weight regardless if she has a calf or not. When we gave the heifers a shot to bring them in when we were A.I.ing and she aborted a calf and we thouhgt she didn't clean right. Well we stepped on the scale while at the vet and weighed 1080 at 15 months, I'm not sure what she weighs now but it's around 1250 to 1300.
 

Campground Cattle

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The Risinger Ranch in Crockett Texas did have a supply of balancer bulls. Have you ever investigated putting British White Bulls on your heifers. BW's typically yeild 90% choice and prime also they are very docile cattle that need very little maintaince. I am currently replacing my Angus with BW's.
 

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