Bad bull

[SEIOWACATTLE]

Just trying to figure out a couple of things, I bought 15 pairs earlier last year, some had been ran with two bulls until brought out to my place then just one bull came with them. I paid $200 to for use of the bull for the summer, bull was said to have been tested. I preg checked the cows today and 10 out of 15 came up open, I checked the dates and more that likely the 5 bred cows were bred by the other bull. My question is - Is the bulls owner responsible for his bad bull and if so how much? Not sure how this usually works, the vet said cows look to be in great shape. The bull was with the cows for 5 months. Thanks for any response!

 

[piedmontese]

i had a similar incident this past summer.i bought a registered saler bull that had supposingly been semen tested and was good.put him n with about 10 heifers.right away he started checking them and we seen him breediing often.well when we preg checked n the fall they were all open.took the bull to the vet and no good.called they guy and he gave me my $$ back.still a bad deal 4 me after feeding the heifers and the bull all that time for nothing.i know,i know, i should have seen the papers from the vet on the semen test.thought i was ok because i had bought cows and heifers from the guy b4.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Sorry to hear about that. Have you observed signs of heat in the cows through the fall and winter? Did you observe the bull covering multiple cows late into the summer?
If you had no guarantee in pregnancy, then I would believe you are legally responsible for your own success or failure- especially since there are so many variables in reproduction and they are in your care. I would also feel that if the breeder did have a breeding soundness exam performed with good results on their behalf, and the bull was not evaluated by anyone on your behalf saying it was or was not reproductively sound, it would be hard to prove that the bull or the breeder was at fault. But you can always speak with the breeder to discuss your concerns.

I would sure consider having all bulls retested by your own vet prior to turn out since their ability to reproduce is so critical. I want someone I know and trust verifying all is good (at least that can be evaluated for). Breeding soundness exams are fairly cheap compared to a failed or stretched out calf crop.

I understand you only have 15 head I don't know how you can justify cost of multiple bulls, but having only one bull makes this type of situation much more likely.

 

[jtbakv]

$200 I would write it off as a lesson and return the bull and let him know about the open cows if he offers you half the money I would take it and find another bull.

 

[Kingfisher]

Just trying to figure out a couple of things, I bought 15 pairs earlier last year, some had been ran with two bulls until brought out to my place then just one bull came with them. I paid $200 to for use of the bull for the summer, bull was said to have been tested. I preg checked the cows today and 10 out of 15 came up open, I checked the dates and more that likely the 5 bred cows were bred by the other bull. My question is - Is the bulls owner responsible for his bad bull and if so how much? Not sure how this usually works, the vet said cows look to be in great shape. The bull was with the cows for 5 months. Thanks for any response!

Dude has a junk bull............he didn't mean to leave you with that many open cows but.........the rest is up to you and his being a Cattleman.

 

[plumber_greg]

Things can happen to a bull at any time. Had one a few years ago that checked ok in the month before turnout and bred 8 cows the first week, then none after that. No noticable injury that I ever saw. However when they started coming in heat for the third time, I put out another bull. I think the guy you got the animals from will ask you why you waited 5 months to realize something was wrong. This is why cattle should be checked and observed on a regular basis. gs

 

[Angus Cowman]

i had a similar incident this past summer.i bought a registered saler bull that had supposingly been semen tested and was good.put him n with about 10 heifers.right away he started checking them and we seen him breediing often.well when we preg checked n the fall they were all open.took the bull to the vet and no good.called they guy and he gave me my $$ back.still a bad deal 4 me after feeding the heifers and the bull all that time for nothing.i know,i know, i should have seen the papers from the vet on the semen test.thought i was ok because i had bought cows and heifers from the guy b4.

a semen test isn't fool proof and their is no guarantee just because they did one that the bull will still be good at breeding time

 

[robert]

a bull can pass a semen test with flying colors and never physically settle a cow.

 

[angus9259]

It's an odd arrangement unless you bought a guarantee of calves - otherwise you're probably just out. If you had bought the bull from me I'd replace the bull for you but not sure that's what happened here.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I would sure consider having all bulls retested by your own vet prior to turn out since their ability to reproduce is so critical. I want someone I know and trust verifying all is good (at least that can be evaluated for).

Very true, we have used a number of different vets over the years. Lucky to have had the services of a couple of vets who speacialized in BSE's and compared to some other mixed practice vets for whom BSE's are a side line there can be a big difference in the thoroughness of the exam. One aspect of an exam that I have seen a number of vets let slide when they have difficulty getting a full protrusion is a complete visual penile inspection. The bull may give a good semen sample that looks good under the microscope but because of the lack of the visual penile inspection a number of potential problems can go unobserved that can render the bull a non breeder.

In addition, any time one is reyling on the breeding ability of a single sire, it is critical to observe and confirm ASAP the ability of the sire to mount and successfully service cows.

 

[bandit80]

In addition, any time one is reyling on the breeding ability of a single sire, it is critical to observe and confirm ASAP the ability of the sire to mount and successfully service cows.

+1 here. I believe it is good practice to make sure a bull knows what to do. If you only have one bull with your cows, better be sure he knows how to use his equipment.

I leased a bull to a neighbor 10 years ago or so and had a bad situation. Bull was 6 years old, and neighbor put him in with 28 cows. Should not have been a problem for him to cover. After bringing my bull home he went backwards on his condition very rapidly. We though he had picked up some hardware possibly. 3 months later when we had him semen checked for spring turnout, no good. When my neighbor pregged his cows, he had 11 open cows. I gave him back his money for the 11 open cows to keep the peace, and I felt it was the right thing to do. To this day, I believe something happened to my bull while at the neighbors place. Either he got a disease, injury, etc and that is what caused his and my problem.

Long story short, I don't like bull lease arrangements because of all the unknown factors. It is important to have everything on the table on both sides of the aggreement.

As to what you should do now, I think the owner of the bull should give you your money back, but no guarantees he will, and I doubt there is anything you can do to make him do it. Probably will just be chalked up as another lesson.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Plumber-greg - "I think the guy you got the animals from will ask you why you waited 5 months to realize something was wrong. This is why cattle should be checked and observed on a regular basis. gs"
BINGO!! No bull is fool-proof. It is up to the owner/breeder to observe his cattle and know whether they are re-cycling. If I loaned you a bull (which I would never do), I would give you back your $200 because $200 isn't worth hurting my reputation - but I would in no way feel responsible under the circumstances you explained.
Edit - unless the seller was selling them as breds - but, if he sent a bull along, sounds like you "assumed" some or all were open.