back again, with some calf issues

[born2run]

Hi there:

Been over 2 years since I've posted here, and Im sure most of you don't remember me. So...Im working as a calf manager/feeder for a 300 cow dairy. This guy was sending his calves out to custom raisers until early this summer, when they raised their costs too high for his liking.

Cows are calved out in less than sterile conditions. Some are freshening in a central pen that has over 20 head in it, cleaned once a week, the others are lucky enough to be put in a 12x12 pen with 1 or 2 other cows/heifers. These are bedded frequently but not thoroughly cleaned and NEVER disinfected.

Calves are moved outside immediately upon birth and put in huts, vaccinated with TSV2, Calfguard, and First Defense. Theyre all fed colostrum either from the cow or from Colostrumate. Huts are kept on concrete, cleaned in between each use and powerwashed. They're kept "high and dry", bedded frequently and are clean.

Now here's the kicker. Something is going through them that's killing them, FAST. They'll eat fine and appear fine 12 hours prior and be dead the next time I come. They arent scouring. It appears to be a fast moving respiratory bug, but Im not sure how to even combat it. This is where I need your advice. Ill call the vet today and see what he says, but I'd appreciate some additional input.

Thanks

 

[dun]

I would have the vet post one of them and send off tssues, etc. to the lab for analysis

 

[CKC1586]

Are they getting BoSe?

 

[born2run]

Hum...no they are not. Used to work for a calf raiser and she gave that. Honestly hadn't thought of it until you mentioned that. Would that be a possible cause of this?

 

[hillsdown]

Does the dairy test their dry cow TMR regularly ? I would be looking at either a selenium deficiency or too much selenium. Definitely get the vet to necropsy and get tissue and blood samples tested . Also add B12 and vitamin D into your mix when they are born, you can give it orally as well . What age are they dying ,how many days old ?

Let us know what the vet suggests.

 

[redcowsrule33]

How old are the affected calves?

How much colostrum do they get and how soon after birth?

Are they getting the vaccinations before or after the colostrum?

 

[CKC1586]

Hum...no they are not. Used to work for a calf raiser and she gave that. Honestly hadn't thought of it until you mentioned that. Would that be a possible cause of this?

Yes it could, are you in a selenium deficient state?? We give our cows MuSe 30 days before calving and the calves get BoSe as soon as we can catch them after they are born. Good idea to get a post to see what is really happening.

 

[born2run]

Hi again...

Talked to the herd manager and he's 100% convinced my problem lies in the fact that the dry cows arent getting fed enough. They're after the feeder (and now I am too, since Im aware that this is the issue) to feed more. His theory is that these calves never have a chance because the cow is stressed and underfed.

Had two new calves this morning, the first in a week span, and all I had access to was Mu-se. Gave them both a shot as well as vits along with their regular vaccinations.
Fly population is out of control here, and Im living for a freeze. Im battling a boss that doesnt like me even using additional drugs because of crappy milk prices, and doesnt understand how tough it is to raise a healthy replacement heifer. If I have another dead calf Ill push him to let me get the vet for a pm, but I can't do it without his permission. Im frustrated, but all I can do is my best.

Eventually I'd like to think that he'll catch on that drug input is necessary to keep some calves alive. Right now they whine when I run them out of Excede and Banamine.

 

[born2run]

btw, affected calves rarely make it past 7-10 days. It's primarily taking out the heifer calves, which makes me believe that milk replacer is making them more susceptible to disease.

 

[CKC1586]

Had two new calves this morning, the first in a week span, and all I had access to was Mu-se. Gave them both a shot as well as vits along with their regular vaccinations.
.

Be careful with the MuSe to not overdose the calves....

 

[born2run]

Yep, I was aware of Mu-se and overdosing. The last 3 I've had appear healthy, but the real determiner will come in one week. Had one heifer calf yesterday and two bulls. So far no more heifer calves have died, so I keep my fingers crossed.

 

[dun]

Yep, I was aware of Mu-se and overdosing. The last 3 I've had appear healthy, but the real determiner will come in one week. Had one heifer calf yesterday and two bulls. So far no more heifer calves have died, so I keep my fingers crossed.

Just to be even more careful, why not get some Bo-Se instead of Mu-Se

 

[born2run]

Ill clear it with the herd manager to see if I can go to the vet tomorrow and get some. I'd feel a lot safer with Bo-se.

 

[redcowsrule33]

It's primarily taking out the heifer calves, which makes me believe that milk replacer is making them more susceptible to disease.

What brand and quality (%fat, protein, fiber)of milk replacer are you using? Any additives? Is it being fed according to label directions?

 

[TexasBred]

Ill clear it with the herd manager to see if I can go to the vet tomorrow and get some. I'd feel a lot safer with Bo-se.

If you're in charge of raising the calves and you only see them every 12 hours YOU are not doing your job. Can't imagine the operation not having a good vet. Milk replacer shouldn't be a problem unless you're using some really low grade stuff and it's going right thru them and even then dieing in less than 12 hours has to be something viral I'd think. Have you still not had the vet out or taken one to him?? We're talking a potential loss in the hundreds of thousands of dollars if it's not dealt with quickly and accurately.

 

[hillsdown]

Ill clear it with the herd manager to see if I can go to the vet tomorrow and get some. I'd feel a lot safer with Bo-se.

If you're in charge of raising the calves and you only see them every 12 hours YOU are not doing your job. Can't imagine the operation not having a good vet. Milk replacer shouldn't be a problem unless you're using some really low grade stuff and it's going right thru them and even then dieing in less than 12 hours has to be something viral I'd think. Have you still not had the vet out or taken one to him?? We're talking a potential loss in the hundreds of thousands of dollars if it's not dealt with quickly and accurately.

I am going to sound like a beotch again , but TB is so right and your @ss would have been gone if you were my calf manager. My guess is ecoli at a week old and you are missing it when they first start scouring as it leaves no trace but a wet mess and then a dead calf . I suggest you up your commitment and put your boss's balls to the wall if he/she ever wants to succeed in the dairy business. Stand your ground if you are really committed to what you are doing. :nod:
Good luck and you have my best wishes , as you are going to be facing an uphill battle.. :tiphat:

 

[ChrisB]

The day I fire an employee for only putting in a 12 hour day would be the last time that I would dare open my mouth about how hard it is to find good help.

 

[TexasBred]

The day I fire an employee for only putting in a 12 hour day would be the last time that I would dare open my mouth about how hard it is to find good help.

Obviously you've never worked on a dairy....and NEVER raised baby calves. Doesn't matter how long nor how short his day is, it's what he does during those hours. If that is his primary job he needs to check those calves regularly and OFTEN!!! A droopy ear, a different look in the eyes, a very slight cough, a change in the manure or a little loss of appetite. You learn to look for those things and act immediately. You're looking at a day old animal with potential to be worth thousands and you treat it accordingly. Not totally unlike raising your own babies and his family is depending on him as well.

 

[hillsdown]

The day I fire an employee for only putting in a 12 hour day would be the last time that I would dare open my mouth about how hard it is to find good help.

Where did he/she say they put in 12 hours ??????????????? They said they checked the calves 12 hours later .. :roll:

 

[ChrisB]

I assumed that this person also did other jobs around the farm during a 12 hour day. But as Hillsdown pointed out this may not be the case.

FYI - I grew up on a dairy farm and I am well aware of the hours it takes to operate one and have also raised my share of calves. My point was that there is a big difference between an owner and an employee and what should resonably be expected of them.