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B.S.E. for bull....

A

Anonymous

Guest
I took my reg. Murray grey bull to the vet today for a B.S.Exam. HE FAILED...He is a 13 month old murray grey bull. His scrotal cmf. was 36 which from what I understand is average. He produced sperm but the vet said it should have about three times as much little fishies in the pool. When do most people usually give bse test's. When I got home I put him out with my cow's. The vet said he may be able to breed about 5 or so cows... maybe, but obviously thats not what I'm looking for. I'm going to give him a few more months but in the meantime I've got to borrow someone elses bull so I dont miss my breeding season. That Suck's... Should I go ahead and take him back to the previous owner or should I stick it out for a while. He is a murray grey and from all I hear, they are supposed to be very fertile bull's. I bought him from a reputable breeder. I put him out with the cow's hoping they might stimulate him a little more. Any thought's or advise????????
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
At 13 months and a 36 cm scrotal, he is above average in that department, if the measurement is accurate that is. With that size scrotum, he should be mature enough to be producing semen. If he failed, he should be culled. One exception is if he was not fed enough groceries to heve good fertility. 3 weeks of better feed would tell.

Jason Trowbridge Southern Angus Farms Alberta Canada

[email protected]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
>there are a couple of things that could thro a BSE off but like Jason said a week or two of groceries should tell you 1 way or another. GO BACK TO THE BREEDER! I run Murrays and hope this guy works with you. Lord knows after this winter it could be a case of frosted nuts.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A couple of other thoughts.

Sometimes a young bull is a little more difficult to get a good semen sample from than it is from an older bull. This info is from my vet. We raise Murray Greys, and more than once the vet has had to take a second sample from an 11 to 13 month old MG bull and that sample will be excellent. For some reason the first sample with a young bull is sometimes very diluted.

If the vet didn't sample the bull a second time during this exam, the bull needs to be sampled again. On rare occasion, the problem is with the vet. An impatient vet can come up with a poor sample.

My other thought is for you to look back and think about what was happening to that bull a couple of months ago. That's when he was manufacturing the sperm you are sampling today. Was he especially stressed or mal nourished or exposed to extreme cold? More frequently, what happens in a young bull is heat stress causes a temporary decrease in fertility.

Good luck to you. The scrotal circumference is very good, and not out of line with what we've seen in our Murray Grey bulls. We breed for scrotal circumference, among other traits.

In a protected pasture with good feed and water close by, even a young Murray Grey bull can cover about 30-40 cows. I know, that's more than one would expect at that age, but I've seen it done on a regular basis. A good Murray Grey bull is an excellent breeder, and they do start young.

How old was this bull when you bought him? A reputable breeder should raise the bull to breeding age and have a BSE done before completing the sale. Is that what was done? How long ago? If he was sold as a weanling, then that's not so good.

> I took my reg. Murray grey bull to
> the vet today for a B.S.Exam. HE
> FAILED...He is a 13 month old
> murray grey bull. His scrotal cmf.
> was 36 which from what I
> understand is average. He produced
> sperm but the vet said it should
> have about three times as much
> little fishies in the pool. When
> do most people usually give bse
> test's. When I got home I put him
> out with my cow's. The vet said he
> may be able to breed about 5 or so
> cows... maybe, but obviously thats
> not what I'm looking for. I'm
> going to give him a few more
> months but in the meantime I've
> got to borrow someone elses bull
> so I dont miss my breeding season.
> That Suck's... Should I go ahead
> and take him back to the previous
> owner or should I stick it out for
> a while. He is a murray grey and
> from all I hear, they are supposed
> to be very fertile bull's. I
> bought him from a reputable
> breeder. I put him out with the
> cow's hoping they might stimulate
> him a little more. Any thought's
> or advise????????
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It has been cold here in Kentucky, but anytime it gets below 20 degrees I put him up in a stall with a heat lamp. He is feed very good quality hay and grain. He gets about 1.5% of body weight in grain. He's not even close to being malnourished. Other than his sperm he is in excellent condition. The vet checked his sperm three times. I dont know about bull's but if someone stuck a rod up my butt and sent electric shock's through it I may not produce much sperm either.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
> It has been cold here in Kentucky,
> but anytime it gets below 20
> degrees I put him up in a stall
> with a heat lamp. He is feed very
> good quality hay and grain. He
> gets about 1.5% of body weight in
> grain. He's not even close to
> being malnourished. Other than his
> sperm he is in excellent
> condition. The vet checked his
> sperm three times. I dont know
> about bull's but if someone stuck
> a rod up my butt and sent electric
> shock's through it I may not
> produce much sperm either.

What Linda said about looking back a few months. Maybe an illness resulting in a fever.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kevin,

As a Murray Grey breeder, I would seriously suggest you not coddle this bull so much. I don't want to offend you, but graining a breeding bull is probably not a good idea. What is his body condition score? If he is overly fat, that can be a breeding problem, too.

The suggestion about a possible fever in the past few months is a very good suggestion.

A bull on good quality hay, with free choice mineral and water has all he needs to do well.

The only time I grain bulls at all is if the price or availability of hay is a problem. Then I will substitute grain for a portion of the hay. We are going into the 5th year of drought here, so we are having to get creative with feed.

As for the weather, we are at a 5700 foot altitude, with normally cold snowy winters. I'm talking well below zero winters. Our bulls live outside with only a couple of trees to break the wind, and the only concern I have is to prevent any frostbite of their testicles during the winter. Good bedding takes care of that problem.

You want livestock that can handle all conditions. If your bull doesn't handle weather well, then you need a different bull.

Besides not graining him, I wouldn't bother with the heat lamp. It's an unnecessary expense. Provide a windbreak and/or possibly a place for him to get out of the rain, if you wish, but otherwise I suggest not taking the extra steps. He's tough and he'll do fine.

Heck, our Murray Grey calves are born out in the snow and do just fine.

> It has been cold here in Kentucky,
> but anytime it gets below 20
> degrees I put him up in a stall
> with a heat lamp. He is feed very
> good quality hay and grain. He
> gets about 1.5% of body weight in
> grain. He's not even close to
> being malnourished. Other than his
> sperm he is in excellent
> condition. The vet checked his
> sperm three times. I don't know
> about bull's but if someone stuck
> a rod up my butt and sent electric
> shock's through it I may not
> produce much sperm either.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Not sure what your Vet setup is and all. In our operation we take a bull to a specialty Breeder's Service facility that uses live cows in heat to stimulate the bull to mount while the technician uses an artificial vagina to collect the semen. Then they process and computer analyze the semen quality and sperm count. They are saying that somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million sperm in a sample is a "good" to excellent sample. Unless I'm totally naive, most "Vets" do not have this type of elaborate setup to collect and analyze semen scientifically---expensive equipment and computers.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It sounds like you have been overfeeding him, which can harm his reproductive potential. I don't know if any damage done can be undone by feeding him correctly now. It doesn't sound like it from what I've read.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
> I took my reg. Murray grey bull to
> the vet today for a B.S.Exam. HE
> FAILED...He is a 13 month old
> murray grey bull. His scrotal cmf.
> was 36 which from what I
> understand is average. He produced
> sperm but the vet said it should
> have about three times as much
> little fishies in the pool. When
> do most people usually give bse
> test's. When I got home I put him
> out with my cow's. The vet said he
> may be able to breed about 5 or so
> cows... maybe, but obviously thats
> not what I'm looking for. I'm
> going to give him a few more
> months but in the meantime I've
> got to borrow someone elses bull
> so I dont miss my breeding season.
> That Suck's... Should I go ahead
> and take him back to the previous
> owner or should I stick it out for
> a while. He is a murray grey and
> from all I hear, they are supposed
> to be very fertile bull's. I
> bought him from a reputable
> breeder. I put him out with the
> cow's hoping they might stimulate
> him a little more. Any thought's
> or advise???????? ~~~~~~~~~you need to CULL the bull!!! he has a low sperm count youll get a few calves out of him but youll loose money in the long run.i lernt the hard way.i had the best looking bull i ever laid eyes on .he had a giant set a nutts on him.i babied him & gave him 2cd & 3rd chances.well i ended up loosing my ass!!if vet says he's low i would cull & get me a good hot bull 15 -24 mounths old~~~~~~~~tc
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
We bought a bull off of an angus breeder's sale they couldn't put him in the book because he had so low of a sperm count. Come to find out when we had him checked again he was the second best out of all our bulls our vet said the fact the he was young and a virgin sire was a lot of the problem...

[email protected]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The only reason I used the heat lamp and treat him the waay I do is because that was what the stipulation was on getting my money back if he could'nt breed. I dont do that for any of my other cattle. I was just trying to hold up my end of the deal....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
> The only reason I used the heat
> lamp and treat him the waay I do
> is because that was what the
> stipulation was on getting my
> money back if he could'nt breed. I
> dont do that for any of my other
> cattle. I was just trying to hold
> up my end of the deal....

What did you pay for the bull, and how old was he when you got him? He should have had a bse before he was sold.Murray Grey's are wonderful cattle,but sometimes Manure happens.



[email protected]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I remember our vet saying one day, "I don't know about these young virgin bulls. Sometimes it's really hard to get a good sample. You test them again another time and they usually pass with flying colors."

> We bought a bull off of an angus
> breeder's sale they couldn't put
> him in the book because he had so
> low of a sperm count. Come to find
> out when we had him checked again
> he was the second best out of all
> our bulls our vet said the fact
> the he was young and a virgin sire
> was a lot of the problem...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i am sure most of you all have a lot more experience than i do, but my vet (and he is a very reputable vet in our area in large animals) wanted to wait until my young bull was 17 months before checking him...

for what its worth

good luck

gene

> I took my reg. Murray grey bull to
> the vet today for a B.S.Exam. HE
> FAILED...He is a 13 month old
> murray grey bull. His scrotal cmf.
> was 36 which from what I
> understand is average. He produced
> sperm but the vet said it should
> have about three times as much
> little fishies in the pool. When
> do most people usually give bse
> test's. When I got home I put him
> out with my cow's. The vet said he
> may be able to breed about 5 or so
> cows... maybe, but obviously thats
> not what I'm looking for. I'm
> going to give him a few more
> months but in the meantime I've
> got to borrow someone elses bull
> so I dont miss my breeding season.
> That Suck's... Should I go ahead
> and take him back to the previous
> owner or should I stick it out for
> a while. He is a murray grey and
> from all I hear, they are supposed
> to be very fertile bull's. I
> bought him from a reputable
> breeder. I put him out with the
> cow's hoping they might stimulate
> him a little more. Any thought's
> or advise????????



[email protected]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I paid $1800 for him when he was 9 months old. Too young for breeding exam but I did get a garantee for breeding. I'm giving him a few more months because he sure is a nice looking bull and is very gentle. I do hope the lady will hold up her end of the deal though if needed. I'm going to ask to barrow one of her bulls so I dont miss my breeding season so we'll see how that pan's out...
 
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