auction calves, scours, and miracles

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poky1999

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Hello. I am new here, and I apologize if all of this has been covered in the past. I will try to be brief. I am in a hurry, as we are losing another calf as I type.
We raise two bull calves per year, castrate them, and raise them for beef. We have had success buying them from the local auction in the past. All calves that we have purchased, have gotten scours, however, up until this spring, all have recovered nicely. (We raise them on goat milk, and they have thrived on it.) In the past, the calves got scours at about 10 days-2 weeks old. This year, they are getting sick at 3 days, and go downhill very quickly. (We usually give them both goat colostrum as well as dried colostrum within a few minutes of bringing them home, as we know that time is of the essence, where colostrum is concerned.)
This year, calves are selling VERY cheap. We have now lost two of them from dehydration due to scouring. I did fecals on both of them, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. One survived for 2 1/2 weeks, the other only one week. (We have done/are doing, electrolytes, (alternating with milk at least two hours apart,) sub-q fluids, b-complex, oxytetracycline, probiotics. We even tried the raw egg thing on one this afternoon! We are now in the process of trying to save the third one. All were kept in different areas on our farm. This third guy, has been ONLY on cow milk.. no goat milk, as we were afraid that might be the problem, (however, two other calves are thriving on it... and one is now 6 weeks old.) Those also, came from the auction.
I am thinking of getting a vet out here in the morning, just to LEARN.. if nothing else, as I doubt this dehydrated baby can be saved at this point. I am hoping that the vet might have a few suggestions, as well as show me how to do an I.V. (I worked in an animal hospital almost 30 years ago, but do not remember.) Any pointers? This is very sad as well as frustrating, as it seems we are doing everything possible to save these guys... (my husband euthanized the last 2, as they were way beyond help at that point.) I am thinking about asking for some Banamine, as that might just help calm the gut down a bit....

My suspicion is this... that the ones we are losing, never got colostrum from mom... maybe the two that are doing well, did! AND... is there ANY hope at all for this guy that we are trying to save now? His eyes are very sunken, tho we gave him 1000 cc's lactated ringer's sub-q today, as well as keeping up with electrolytes and milk. I am even giving him imodium at this point, as he seems beyond hope now, as the fluids do not seem to be enough, ALTHOUGH, he IS alert and sucking, and bumping for a bottle.. Go figure! His eyes are SO sunken, that his lashes are rubbing on his eyeballs and making them water. Poor guy.. He sure does have the desire to fight! Any help would be appreciated! Thank you in advance! We are very tired and saddened about losing these poor little guys....
 
Hi poky and welcome to the boards.

Firstly - your goat milk shouldnt be the problem unless your goat has mastitis or some other nasty thing (mastitic milk really shouldnt be used to hand rear animals, even though it is a common practice and I know many people who have done it for years and successfully). Goat milk is widely used to rear wildlife, domestic animals and it is even used for some infants who cant tolerate cows milk. So that shouldnt be your problem.

Now, I'm not 100% sure about this and maybe Alice or Milkmaid can help me out, but I think scours in the first 3 days is E.coli. It can be environmental, ie. caused by poor hygiene, lots of mud and manure where the calves are housed, and poor cleaning of bottles and teats etc. But since you kept them in different areas that might rule that out. So perhaps it is an infectious E.coli scour, either on your farm or in your district, or on the farm and/or district the calves came from (did they come from the same farm?). It also does sound like they havent had sufficient colostrum. As I said though, I'm not 100% sure on this, so all of this might be completely wrong.

I'm also not sure, but I think there is an E.coli calf scour vaccine? Perhaps you may want to look into using this.

Also, get a vet out pronto to assess the situation.

Good luck, hope you dont lose anymore.
 
Don't mean to be unkind, however I think about 75% of your problem is buying "dairy calves" that were taken off mama too soon (not weaned). The other 15% due to conditions at auction barn; the final 10% is just "luck of the draw".

You say you got them cheap. After you buy and administer all of the treatments, etc., they are no longer inexpensive calves, especially when one or more dies.

Caveat: Buy weaned calves, in good health...priceless....
 
poky1999":1wgy224s said:
Hello. I am new here, and I apologize if all of this has been covered in the past. I will try to be brief. I am in a hurry, as we are losing another calf as I type.
We raise two bull calves per year, castrate them, and raise them for beef. We have had success buying them from the local auction in the past. All calves that we have purchased, have gotten scours, however, up until this spring, all have recovered nicely. (We raise them on goat milk, and they have thrived on it.) In the past, the calves got scours at about 10 days-2 weeks old. This year, they are getting sick at 3 days, and go downhill very quickly. (We usually give them both goat colostrum as well as dried colostrum within a few minutes of bringing them home, as we know that time is of the essence, where colostrum is concerned.)
This year, calves are selling VERY cheap. We have now lost two of them from dehydration due to scouring. I did fecals on both of them, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. One survived for 2 1/2 weeks, the other only one week. (We have done/are doing, electrolytes, (alternating with milk at least two hours apart,) sub-q fluids, b-complex, oxytetracycline, probiotics. We even tried the raw egg thing on one this afternoon! We are now in the process of trying to save the third one. All were kept in different areas on our farm. This third guy, has been ONLY on cow milk.. no goat milk, as we were afraid that might be the problem, (however, two other calves are thriving on it... and one is now 6 weeks old.) Those also, came from the auction.
I am thinking of getting a vet out here in the morning, just to LEARN.. if nothing else, as I doubt this dehydrated baby can be saved at this point. I am hoping that the vet might have a few suggestions, as well as show me how to do an I.V. (I worked in an animal hospital almost 30 years ago, but do not remember.) Any pointers? This is very sad as well as frustrating, as it seems we are doing everything possible to save these guys... (my husband euthanized the last 2, as they were way beyond help at that point.) I am thinking about asking for some Banamine, as that might just help calm the gut down a bit....

My suspicion is this... that the ones we are losing, never got colostrum from mom... maybe the two that are doing well, did! AND... is there ANY hope at all for this guy that we are trying to save now? His eyes are very sunken, tho we gave him 1000 cc's lactated ringer's sub-q today, as well as keeping up with electrolytes and milk. I am even giving him imodium at this point, as he seems beyond hope now, as the fluids do not seem to be enough, ALTHOUGH, he IS alert and sucking, and bumping for a bottle.. Go figure! His eyes are SO sunken, that his lashes are rubbing on his eyeballs and making them water. Poor guy.. He sure does have the desire to fight! Any help would be appreciated! Thank you in advance! We are very tired and saddened about losing these poor little guys....

I'll go along with the E-coli theory on this age calf, which means we need antibiotic therapy . I like Baytril injected, along with Scour Halt oral (spectinamycin) and SMZ-TMP, or Vetisulid .In a calf this sick I would also use Dexamethasone . You can use up to 3000 ml of Lactated Ringers per day and I would give another 2000 ml yet tonight, wram it up first . It does not sound like this calf is too far gone to save, he is just running out of water . We have to put fluid in the front end faster than it is coming out the back .

Larry
 
When buying calves at auction, I have better luck with beef splits that are 1 to 2 weeks old.
 
Buying dairy calves at a sale barn is a real crap shoot. Most probably nursed some but all that I see appear as tho they're looking for a place to lay down and die. If you're gonna raise dairy calves you better be darn good at it period. :!: :!: Beef calves would be a much better choice and at least the bull calves will be worth something someday.
 
There be a reason the sale barn is Caveat Emptor. Anythin bad what can happen ta ya WILL happen ta ya if ya keep buyin at one. Dairy calves be a bigger risk than normal, if ya wanna be in that business then get out, meet some dairy men in ya area. If calves be that cheap in ya area, at least some of em would probably be happy ta sell ya they little bulls ta save a trip ta tha sale barn themselves.Be rememberin, when ya got a scoury calf, the area he's been in needs be at least sprayed down with a bleach solution before any other calf be kept inn the area. Good luck.
 
Brought this subject while chatting with the vet today. He feels that the pens need to be cleaned and a heavy layer of fast lime put downn. The calves need to be off of the pens for a couple of days then they can be beeded down with a thick layer of straw. He laso suggested feeding milk replacer with corid. Carnation makes on with it. If that isn;t available, put the proper dose of corid in the milk. This should be started the day they come home from the salbarn. Beacuse of the timeframe he's thinking cocidiosis or ........ I can;t remember the other. May have been e. coli but that doesn;t ring a bell.
 
Take a stool sample to your vet for him to test.
I agree that there is a good chance that it is e. coli. If so, don't buy any more calves from that auction barn. Once it gets in the pen, it can infect every calf that comes through.
 
dun":a4wyx9rx said:
Brought this subject while chatting with the vet today. He feels that the pens need to be cleaned and a heavy layer of fast lime put downn. The calves need to be off of the pens for a couple of days then they can be beeded down with a thick layer of straw. He laso suggested feeding milk replacer with corid. Carnation makes on with it. If that isn;t available, put the proper dose of corid in the milk. This should be started the day they come home from the salbarn. Beacuse of the timeframe he's thinking cocidiosis or ........ I can;t remember the other. May have been e. coli but that doesn;t ring a bell.
Was the other one cryptosporidia ? Deccox will control both coccidiosis and crypto .

Larry
 

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