Aubrac cattle breed

[Frankie]

Ladies and Gentlemen-

I have perused the posts on the Aubrac Cattle Breed for the last several days (and nights!) and find it interesting that pessimism, cynicism, sarcasm and - yes - even rudeness seem to be the 'talking points' of the moment.

Aubracusa has responded to each one of these acerbic commentaries in an intelligent, friendly, non-competitive manner, attempting to inform ALL of us as completely as he can within the purview of his authority, given his responsibility to the Aubrac Breeders involved in this under-taking, which is an on-going work in progress.

In My Opinion - we should ALL be grateful that this subject has been presented in an unbiased attitude, and has not regressed into a contentious battle involving quarraling, insults, and ultimately turning into a knock-down-and-drag-out fight embracing egotism and arrogance! Aubracusa has approached each of us with dignified courtesy, respect and politeness without ONE SINGLE remark which would belittle or disparage ANY other breed of cattle OR their enthusiasts or breeder's.

I feel that the very least we can do is to respond in kind, and return his efforts in like manner! After all, isn't this what the CattleToday and ranchers.net Forum's are all about in the first place? If not - I have been contributing to the wrong group of people here!

Thank you for your consideration!

DOC HARRIS

Uh, while I agree he's done a very good job presenting his breed and trying to stay on point, this quote from the thread is hardly what I'd call nice:

Having an intelligent conversation with guys like Mike is a lot like "running the Atlantic" in a Liberty boat.

Just when you least expect it, he rises from the murky depths to try and try and torpedo your ship.

But just like last night, when things got too hot in his kitchen, he couldn't cut and run fast enough.

aubracusa

Let's not turn the guy (or gal) into a saint. ;-)

 

[Gus]

For those who will not calcuate returns relative to cost....they won't be in business long enough to worry about.

Gus

Gus

I'd disagree with this one. In my area, most small producers probably don't have a clue if they're profitable or not. They have some land, they like to mess with cows. They benefit from tax breaks. They'll keep on doing what they're doing as long as they're able. They're not especially interested in joining any organization that requires them to use specific breeds, background calves, give vaccinations. They switched to a black bull because black calves usually bring more than similar calves of another color at the sale barns.

Frankie,

In my area there are no "hobby" producers but rather profession cattle producers doing everything within their power to do the best job possible. If I were to agree with your disagreeing with this statement then everything that has been done over the past 50 years in regard to EPDs, production management schemes, grass management and intensive grazing programs, has all been in vain because the business is all hobby people who don't care about any of these things. I find your comments most interesting on this thread as well as others on this site.

Gus

 

[Frankie]

For those who will not calcuate returns relative to cost....they won't be in business long enough to worry about.

Gus

Gus

I'd disagree with this one. In my area, most small producers probably don't have a clue if they're profitable or not. They have some land, they like to mess with cows. They benefit from tax breaks. They'll keep on doing what they're doing as long as they're able. They're not especially interested in joining any organization that requires them to use specific breeds, background calves, give vaccinations. They switched to a black bull because black calves usually bring more than similar calves of another color at the sale barns.

Frankie,

In my area there are no "hobby" producers but rather profession cattle producers doing everything within their power to do the best job possible. If I were to agree with your disagreeing with this statement then everything that has been done over the past 50 years in regard to EPDs, production management schemes, grass management and intensive grazing programs, has all been in vain because the business is all hobby people who don't care about any of these things. I find your comments most interesting on this thread as well as others on this site.

Gus

That's your area; this is mine. The last I knew the average size of the US cow herd was less than 50 head. I'd guess that in my area it's less than that.

Just because one is a smaller operator, doesn't mean they can/won't use EPDs and other good management practices. Most of them are independent types who want to raise the best beef, the easiest way they can. But, IMO, most of them aren't interested in owning the cattle through the feedlot and to the rail.

I've mainly tried to stay out of the thread. I think the idea that the Aubrac breeders have is a good one: working together to produce a branded beef product. There have been several groups around the country who have had that vision, US Premium Beef, Nolan Ryan, Montana Range come to mind. Ranchers Renissance? Some have been more successful than others. It's not an easy thing to do. But when the cattle get into the hands of people who aren't willing to make the committment necessary, it will be interesting to see what happens. I believe there are established breeds that would work as well as Aubrac in doing what is being tried. But some people love to try out a new breed.

 

[3MR]

Ladies and Gentlemen-

I have perused the posts on the Aubrac Cattle Breed for the last several days (and nights!) and find it interesting that pessimism, cynicism, sarcasm and - yes - even rudeness seem to be the 'talking points' of the moment.

Aubracusa has responded to each one of these acerbic commentaries in an intelligent, friendly, non-competitive manner, attempting to inform ALL of us as completely as he can within the purview of his authority, given his responsibility to the Aubrac Breeders involved in this under-taking, which is an on-going work in progress.

In My Opinion - we should ALL be grateful that this subject has been presented in an unbiased attitude, and has not regressed into a contentious battle involving quarraling, insults, and ultimately turning into a knock-down-and-drag-out fight embracing egotism and arrogance! Aubracusa has approached each of us with dignified courtesy, respect and politeness without ONE SINGLE remark which would belittle or disparage ANY other breed of cattle OR their enthusiasts or breeder's.

I feel that the very least we can do is to respond in kind, and return his efforts in like manner! After all, isn't this what the CattleToday and ranchers.net Forum's are all about in the first place? If not - I have been contributing to the wrong group of people here!

Thank you for your consideration!

DOC HARRIS

I agree, the promotion of any beef breed or marketing campaign can only help the industry as a whole. Comsumers are fickle. They will just as easily buy what they are told they should like as what they actually like.

We need to look at success stories and be happy they are part of the industry rather than cutting down what we dissagree with. We all have our favorite breeds which may or may not be better than any other, but who cares. The industry will survive or fail as a whole not breed by breed.

 

[la4angus]

Frankie,

In my area there are no "hobby" producers but rather profession cattle producers doing everything within their power to do the best job possible.
Gus[/quote]Gee Gus
I sure would like to know what area you are in. Is it part of the USA. ;-)

 

[Aubracusa]

Hello, everyone --

Below are three photos of the same Aubrac calf -- taken at three weeks, 45 days and 90 days -- to show you how these cattle develop.

This calf is 15/16ths Aubrac, sired by a 7/8ths bull named Favorite, and out of a fullblood cow that we flushed last summer.

He received no creep or supplemental feed of any kind, just grass and momma's milk. He looks straighter-legged in a couple of these photos than he actually is. He is a very easy-moving, great-dispositioned calf.

As he matures, he will become black over his shoulders, head and belly. He will continue to become much deeper gutted and more massive.

Thanks,

Aubracusa

 

[Wewild]

WeWild --

I'm not sure what you want to know about my foundation cows. Pedigrees? Calving info? Names?

Thanks,

aubracusa

Thanks for the response.

What breeds of cows did the growers use to inseminate with imported semen when they began growing the herd in the USA and when might that have been?

I like others look forward to published data from a non affiliated source.

 

[Aubracusa]

Hello, WeWild --

The cows we've used Aubracs on have run the full range of US genetics -- Limousin, Salers, Gelbvieh, Angus, Red Angus and Hereford.

We are also developing lines of French fullbloods, although they are very rare in North America.

I flushed two fullbloods last summer (one of them is the mother of the calf pictured above), and there was some other flushing activity of some proven purebreds and fullbloods by other breeders last spring.

I will be more than happy to continue to provide you with any data that I am cleared to release publicly.

In the meantime, I would encourage you to review some of my previous postings. I believe you will find a fairly significant body of information for you to gain an accurate snapshot of what this breed is capable of doing.

Best regards,

aubracusa

 

[Brandonm2]

Doc, I am sorry if we seemed rude. All I was/am asking for is usable data preferably from neutral third party sources backing up some of the claims the polite Aubrac promoters have made. IF the MARC folks (for example) showed me numbers showing the Aubrac to be 33% more efficient that their run of the mill black baldie cow, I would be an idiot not to go to AT LEAST 50:50 Aubrac. But I would like somebody to provide some evidence that Aubracs do deliver on some of their promises before I (or anyone else actually spent money on these cows).

I look at French cattle numbers and I see 1,600,000 Charolais, 825,000 Limousin, 810,000 Normande, 692,000 Montbeliard (a Simmie relative), 400,000 Blonde de Aquitaines, 85,000 Maine Anjous, 3,100,000 Holsteins and only 92,000 Aubracs and I wonder why ~96% of the cows in France (where they are known best) are NOT Aubrac.

 

[Wewild]

Hello everyone,

I base my 33 % increase on:

Reducing my mature cow size, while not affecting my weaning weights. This is evident in my stocking rates on yearling Aubrac cross heifers, where I have run 1/3 more on the same amount of grass.

Hello

What size are you Aubrac's?

Was it the only factor?

Thanks in advance for the response.

 

[Aubracusa]

Thanks for your notes.

France is a country that is dominated by the perpetuation of tradition, and the economic and government policies in place encourage traditional production of foods.

Charolais, for instance, are traditionally from the region south of Paris and the Loire Valley. Salers occupy the high country south of there. Aubrac breeders have raised Aubracs in the Massif Central for centuries. Most of these breeds have their own branded beef products, in the same way you would find specific cheeses (Roquefort, for instance) or wines (Burgundy, for instance) originating from specific regions.

My fullblood Aubrac cows are 1100 to 1200 pounds in summer condition.

Thanks,

aubracusa

 

[Wewild]

My fullblood Aubrac cows are 1100 to 1200 pounds in summer condition.

aubracusa

Thanks for the answer eventhough I didn't ask it from you.

Can you answer the question I asked Del?

If not thanks anyway.

I'm sure he'll be on soon.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Boy Aubracusa, those are some really nice Aubrac calves. They would look better in my pastures. I can't wait for that sell in the Spring 2007! I want you to send me a sale catalog, so don't you forget about me!

 

[Aubracusa]

Hi, WeWild --

I don't know if Del will be up this evening or not. He was shipping cattle today.

I probably need to clear the air regarding the statement I made about Del predicting that he'll be able to increase his production by a third.

First, it has to be placed within the context of his own operation, and the resources at his disposal. Neither of us meant to be a one-size-fits all predictor of performance for everyone reading these posts.

Del and his family have farmed and raised cattle in the same location since the late 1860s, and they are keen business people.

They raise both purebred Herefords (which they run on shares with a producer in another state) but switched to raising composites -- a four-way cross, in this case -- which they have produced since the late 1980s. His cattle, because of the maintenance of heterosis, are very efficient. And, they are extremely uniform. He has a loyal following of bull customers from across the Midwest.

In recent years, Del began to feel that he needed to introduce new blood into his cow herd to reinvigorate the heterosis, and also because he had growing concerns that corn would be pushed into other industrial uses (ie, ethanol). (By the way, at one time, he farmed more than 5,000 acres of corn, so he knows a little about farming and crops).

Del felt he needed to downsize the mature size of his cows in order to make them more grass efficient. This is not meant to give you the impression that Del's cows are too big, because they're not. They're very good, very productive cows that I would confidently put up head to head against anyone's.

(Del's family also run a small feedlot, by the way, and are hosting our first roughage-based bull test.)

That was when he decided to introduce Aubracs.

Now that he has had several years of experience with the breed, he strongly feels that he will be able to increase his production by a third. That's a claim he's made for himself and his operation; not for you, not for Mike, not for anyone else.

Yes, you can increase your production by buying a high-growth bull or by getting a couple of big rains.

But his claim is not based on a single-pasture usage or single-grazing season snapshot, as many in this conversation have tried to put across.

Rather, he is looking at his operation holistically, from a year-round and multi-year basis -- factoring in shorter conception periods, to fewer death-loss and health problems (a direct result of an infusion of heterosis) and fewer problems at calving, to a shorter, more economical breeding and calving seasons, to reduced feed requirements to get his smaller cows through winter. He is achieving all of these things without significantly reducing his calf weights at sale time.

Plus, his cattle will have the flexibility to be marketed through traditional corn-fed systems, or into more lucrative (albeit, higher risk) grass- and forage-based systems.

In the meantime, as we all eagerly await the data, Del has invited Mike C to his tour his operation, and I would encourage any of you to take him up on it as well.

It's one of the best-managed farming and ranching operations I have seen in my life, and I have toured hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of farms in the last 25 years.

His savvy business and organizational skills are the key reasons we gave Del the nod not only to conduct our first-ever national bull test, but also to host our first-ever sale next March.

I am confident that once you look at his business in a holistic way, meet Del and his family in person, and take a look at some of his production data onhis cattle , that you will see his assumptions about the specific impacts of Aubracs on his business will hold true.

Best,

aubracusa

 

[Aubracusa]

Hi, Hill Creek --

Check your inbox.

Anybody wanna talk about Angus? :lol:

I think you'll have just about tapped me out on what I know about Aubracs.

I am flattered by your interest, and thankful to CattleToday.com.

Belinda Hood-Ary does a great job with the newspaper, and she and her crew have done a wonderful service for the industry by making these Q&A boards available for all of us to use.

I'm on baby-sitting duties this evening, folks, but if you need to reach me directly, please email [email protected].

Thanks,

aubracusa

 

[OK Jeanne]

Baby-sitting duties aside, I still hope you will answer
my inquiry about DNA testing for the tenderness
genes on this breed of cattle. You did say that some
of the owners of this breed had been DNA testing
for tenderness---who is it? I sure would like to know
the average scores if they are willing to disclose them.

 

[Wewild]

Hi, WeWild --

Del and his family have farmed and raised cattle in the same location since the late 1860s, and they are keen business people.

They raise both purebred Herefords (which they run on shares with a producer in another state) but switched to raising composites -- a four-way cross, in this case -- which they have produced since the late 1980s. His cattle, because of the maintenance of heterosis, are very efficient. And, they are extremely uniform. He has a loyal following of bull customers from across the Midwest.

In recent years, Del began to feel that he needed to introduce new blood into his cow herd to reinvigorate the heterosis, and also because he had growing concerns that corn would be pushed into other industrial uses (ie, ethanol). (By the way, at one time, he farmed more than 5,000 acres of corn, so he knows a little about farming and crops).

Del felt he needed to downsize the mature size of his cows in order to make them more grass efficient. This is not meant to give you the impression that Del's cows are too big, because they're not. They're very good, very productive cows that I would confidently put up head to head against anyone's.

(

Thanks for your reply.

I'm glad for Del and his family being so successful for so many years as you would agree and I'm sure you would say the same for us as we've been here a might longer. My first fore father were buried here in 1844. He came from Franklin Co. Ga with three brothers from his dad's farm years before and was a veteran. We've never done anything but farm and ranch until dad came along but his Ag degree was benifical to the place as a whole.

We raise commercial cows for the most and farmed various row crops. Broke wild mules then sold them the next year for profit.

In recent years back to the 70's we went more to Lim's and eventually converted the herd over even though we down sized by half at the untimely death of my grandfather in 1993.

We think we do as well as anyone around here as well.

Hi, WeWild --

That was when he decided to introduce Aubracs.

Now that he has had several years of experience with the breed, he strongly feels that he will be able to increase his production by a third. That's a claim he's made for himself and his operation; not for you, not for Mike, not for anyone else.

I'm sorry as I don't understand this part. Why was it posted by you and then him back it up if it wasn't meant for us when it was questioned.

I am confident that once you look at his business in a holistic way,

Can you explain this further as I believe in God and vertical integration. Is that it?

I got to go to bed but look ahead to your kind responses.

Best regards

 

[Alice]

I'm gonna hate myself for this...what is vertical integration?

Alice

 

[Wewild]

I'm gonna hate myself for this...what is vertical integration?

Alice

Here love

Vertical Integration

When a company expands its business into areas that are at different points of the same production path.

 

[Alice]

I thought you were headed to bed and I wouldn't have to try to digest this until the morning! ;-)

Thanks for the explanation, Wewild. I'm going to add this to my vocabulary....it's a good one!

Alice