Are the 1150-1200 pound cows reality or myth ?

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cross_7":2jc98j0i said:
HOSS":2jc98j0i said:
Most of my cows run 1,200 to 1,400 lbs. and I usually get mid 6 to mid 7 weaning weights. I have a couple three stand-outs though. I have a little angus cow that will weigh 1,000 pounds when pregnant but she will wean a mid 6 calf every year (I wean at 180 days). I have a 1,300 lb red angus cow that will bring in a hig 7 to 8 weight calf. She has a bull calf right now that is 5.5 months old that will push 800. I posted a video of him awhile back. It is hard to put together a HERD of small cows that will wean a 6 wt calf but it is something to strive for I guess. And yes I have scales :mrgreen:

hoss i was impressed with the calf you posted the video of.
my goal is to have cows like your 1000 angus cow that will wean 60 or so percent of her body weight, but it's tough to raise them from heifers and cull them cause thier too big.

I know what you mean cross_7. I kept 2 heifers year before last and had to force myself to pick by structure, disposition and momma.....not by size. I had one girl wean off real heavy and was nearly 1,000 lbs as a yearling. I sold her. She still had allot of growing to do. The two I kept are about 1,200 lbs now and are raising some great looking heifers themselves. I have a guy coming tomorrow to look at all of my heifers. He wants to buy them all at weaning in 2 weeks. I asked 900.00 apiece for them and he didn't bat an eye.
 
Good question and it made me curious as to what our adverage weight would be. I didn't pull the weights on all of the cows they were weighed on 4/14/12 when we were doing our herd work I randomly picked 44 head and the average was 1138. This is old cows, middle age cows and younger stock. LIke I said this was a good question, I think I will work on pullng together a spreadsheet with cow weights by age group. What I was seeing was a trend that the old ( I am talking 9 - 10) year old cows were my heavy weights, but they are not weaning calves any bigger than the more moderate weight younger cattle. I know some of this is age but then again I have records on weaning weights their calves and they haven't changed much from year to year.

Gizmom
 
gizmom":jnm2y3g7 said:
Good question and it made me curious as to what our adverage weight would be. I didn't pull the weights on all of the cows they were weighed on 4/14/12 when we were doing our herd work I randomly picked 44 head and the average was 1138. This is old cows, middle age cows and younger stock. LIke I said this was a good question, I think I will work on pullng together a spreadsheet with cow weights by age group. What I was seeing was a trend that the old ( I am talking 9 - 10) year old cows were my heavy weights, but they are not weaning calves any bigger than the more moderate weight younger cattle. I know some of this is age but then again I have records on weaning weights their calves and they haven't changed much from year to year.

Gizmom
If you retain ownership through slaughter or can find out, you might want to find out which mommas raise calves that will fit the box. In our case the smller mommaed calves slaughter younger but also just barely if at all do they fit the box.
 
Dun is right. We are all susposed to be raising cattle for future slaughter. If you have a super effecient cow raising 60% of her body weight, but only weighs 900lbs., you really aren't raising a very good calf for the slaughter market most of the time. All the grids have a carcass weight range. Be sure your calves will fit on it, wether you pass the problem on to someone else or not.
Try and make sure your end product isn't a roly poly fat, grade 4, low dressing 1200lb., animal. If that is what you got, you ain't got much. gs
 
on finish wt vs weaning wt vs cow size, etc.

fwiw I process all my steers for freezer beef off of grazing corn in April at about 13 months old. So i get to see and carefully weigh what comes back frozen in the box from each steer. My steers generally range from 950 to 1100 lb at this 13 month processing.

It has been very surprising to me to find that some of my 1000 lb steers that were a high percent weaning wt from a "1200 lb class" cow come back with more beef in the boxes than my heavier 1100 lb but low percent of dam wt steers from my 1600 lb cows.

not sure I am getting the point across but some cow families just have larger, heavier steers with more bone and offal than the smaller cows' steers.

And overall the advantage of 1200-lb cows over 1800-lb cows is that I can have 3 1200 lb (=3600lb) cows on the about the same amount of grass as I can have 2 1800 lb (=3600lb) cows. And the former gives me 3 calves to sell or finish than 2 calves to sell or finish. Even if the 3 calves are each slightly smaller than the 2 larger calves, it is likely in the end the total finished weight of the 3 calves from 1200 lb will be more than the 2 calves from 1800 lb cows.

In practice I see results in this direction.

Jim
 
dun":2pgr52i3 said:
If you retain ownership through slaughter or can find out, you might want to find out which mommas raise calves that will fit the box. In our case the smller mommaed calves slaughter younger but also just barely if at all do they fit the box.

While it is taught that the size of the parents determines the slaughter weight of calves, I have found in my travels that this is not exactly true. The post weaning management seems to have nearly as much impact as parentage.

Calves from bigger cows(1350lbs+) can be sent straight to the feedlot after weaning and finish in a range that will produce a carcass the industry wants. You are correct that calves from smaller cows can not follow this same pattern, but if you stocker these smaller framed calves you will allow them to grow to their full structural potential (using cheap gains as well), then send them to the feedlot and finish them out at close to the same finish weight as those bigger calves.

So I think that the idea that small cows are bad for the industry as a whole is a null point. Anything that increases efficiency is great for everyone, and while these smaller calves will take longer to finish, the cheap gains in the stocker phase and less gain needed in the feedlot phase could result in overall more cost effective production.

Now, that being said, this is just what I have gathered in my time in school and traveling around the country looking at different operations. Dun, I am positive you have more practical experience than I, so if you have seen this to be otherwise I really can't argue. I just offer a counter point. I think the beauty of our industry is there are many ways to skin a cat so to speak, unlike to poultry and pork industries of today.
 
I just had a young cow raise a 705 pound bull for her second calf, she weighed 1205 at weaning time. She will probably be in the 1400 to 1500 pound range when she matures. Have a heifer that just raised a 575 pound heifer, momma weighed 970 at weaning time, and she will probably mature at around 1300. Most of my adults are all in the 1400 to 1600 pound range and 6 to 6.5 frame range, just where I like it. I'm not interested in the little cattle, I have the environment to support the larger ones.
 
What you say is true WarEagle, but is the end cost about the same for the producer? Why can't someone who is retaining ownership keep 1500lb. cows on the pasture and use the cheap feed he is using to get the calves ready for the feedlot, and keep more cows. Not very plain, but you get the drift. Don't know how anyone could do a study on this, too many variables, it more of what one feels works.
Jim, I know and respect your operation, but the problem with supplying freezer beef is the grade and yield. Perhaps your higher carcass weight steers aren't grading what you think. Remember, when selling and retaing ownership, you live and die by the grids you are on. I don't think you know???? whether your steers would grade select, choice or prime. I'm sure they taste good, but selling on a grid will really fool most people. It's the hardest thing I ever tried to do in raising cattle. That is where the statement,"They all look the same with the hide off" is wrong. They don't. I have had average cattle bring me a 150dollar premium, and my best cost me a few dollars. I would be interested in what would happen to your higher percent dressing steers would do finished out, compared to the lower dressing ones. It would be interesting, to me at least.
Just my opinions, wish I could raise 1000lb cows that would raise 600lb calves. gs
 
WarEagle73 said:
[While it is taught that the size of the parents determines the slaughter weight of calves, I have found in my travels that this is not exactly true. The post weaning management seems to have nearly as much impact as parentage.
Calves from bigger cows(1350lbs+) can be sent straight to the feedlot after weaning and finish in a range that will produce a carcass the industry wants. You are correct that calves from smaller cows can not follow this same pattern, but if you stocker these smaller framed calves you will allow them to grow to their full structural potential (using cheap gains as well), then send them to the feedlot and finish them out at close to the same finish weight as those bigger calves.
So I think that the idea that small cows are bad for the industry as a whole is a null point. Anything that increases efficiency is great for everyone, and while these smaller calves will take longer to finish, the cheap gains in the stocker phase and less gain needed in the feedlot phase could result in overall more cost effective production.
quote]

We sell the growthy steers as 6 wt feeders and take the rest to pasture. Most of these "retained ownership" calves do well in a stockering program and end up as 800# yearlings. I think you need to be a little careful with a stockering approach - - these "cheap gains" on forage can be misleading if you do not charge for yardage or OH or interest or others.
I retain heifers out of cows I really like plus the real growthy (usually with some continental blood) blacks. A few keep growing and end up as "big" 1100# bred heifers. I sell these as replacements since this is what most ranchers want. I assume these become > 1400 cows at some point.
 
Good discussion, and some good points made. All of us are in fact trying to produce a product and that product needs to fit into a standard box. Our operation is purebred, so for us we are trying to produce bulls for our commercial customers that will improve his or her calf crop. We have to accomplish this while still maintaining a strong maternal cow herd, it is a fine line we are all walking. One thing I am certain of is that our customers feel very safe retaining heifers out of our bulls, but the customers also need to feel comfortable if they want to retain ownership of the calves from these bulls through harvest. Like I said a fine line.

Gizmom
 
plumber_greg":2nb8s3lr said:
What you say is true WarEagle, but is the end cost about the same for the producer? Why can't someone who is retaining ownership keep 1500lb. cows on the pasture and use the cheap feed he is using to get the calves ready for the feedlot, and keep more cows. Not very plain, but you get the drift. Don't know how anyone could do a study on this, too many variables, it more of what one feels works.
Jim, I know and respect your operation, but the problem with supplying freezer beef is the grade and yield. Perhaps your higher carcass weight steers aren't grading what you think. Remember, when selling and retaing ownership, you live and die by the grids you are on. I don't think you know???? whether your steers would grade select, choice or prime. I'm sure they taste good, but selling on a grid will really fool most people. It's the hardest thing I ever tried to do in raising cattle. That is where the statement,"They all look the same with the hide off" is wrong. They don't. I have had average ceattle bring me a 150dollar premium, and my best cost me a few dollars. I would be interested in what would happen to your higher percent dressing steers would do finished out, compared to the lower dressing ones. It would be interesting, to me at least.
Just my opinions, wish I could raise 1000lb cows that would raise 600lb calves. gs

Greg, you bring up a good point, I really don't know how mine would grade on a grid. But as you point out, the most important things for my market are taste and tenderness.

I recall reading some recent data that said marbling was chosen to grade because that was the only thing they could SEE on the line. Marbling is not the whole story, it has just evolved in the industry. Obviously there is a correlation between marbling and taste and tenderness but this article stated it is possible to have tasty, tender beef with less than prime marbling.

One of my goals by grazing corn is to get some marbling on them. However corn grain is a smaller percent of the steers' diet than is typical in the industry. That will be especially true this year with the drought and lower corn yields.

My point is that there is more to producing a tasty tender steak than just the marbling criteria.

Jim
 
Red Bull Breeder":w9z9gmdu said:
Read some where that marbling had a less than 10% effect on tenderness.
You are correct marbiling has very little if any relevance on tenderness
 
A few things to remember, also. There are alot of things that determine the size of the cow besides genetics. There are alot of 900 to 1000 lb cows weaning 700 lb calves with genetics to be much larger. The amount and quality of feed the cow receives, the distance and type of terrain she walks each day for feed and water, the age and size she has her first calf and the time between births, as well as many other factors determine mature cow size. If two cows have the same genetics for size, the one that gives the least milk will put more on her and less on her calf, so she will grow more. Many people freshen their heifers at 18-22 months at a smaller size instead of 24 months or more at 1200 lbs just so they will have a smaller cow. If the bulls are left with the cows and the cow freshens every 10-11 months, she will not get as big as the cow that freshens every 12-13 months simply because she has less dry time to heal and grow. In my hilly area, 900 to 1000 pound cows will do much better than 1300-1500 pounders, will eat less hay and wean just as big or bigger calves than the big cows because it is so difficult on her joints to move so much on the rocks and hills to graze. You can take the genetics for a large cow and determine to a great extent how big she gets by the way you treat her. Same with a bull. You can take a charolais bull and hold him back from the cows until he is 2 and then not breed him to very many cows his first year and by the time he is 3, he will weigh a ton and he is too big to keep around here. Or you can take the same bull, put him with cows early, keep him with plenty of cows, and he will top out around 1700-1800 lbs and last until he is 7 or 8 years old without getting too big for the terrain and cows and you have the same genetics in the calves.
 

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