Anyone use the MARC across breed epd info?

[cypressfarms]

Just wondering if anyone used the info published by MARC concerning across breed comparisons. For 2008, some interesting trends continue:

Beefmasters continue to sire the highest numbers for weaning, Charolais for yearling, brahman for birthweight. I'm gonna be in a need of another bull this year; some intersting possibilities jump out. Shorthorn appears to have better #'s than Simmiental (the breed of bull I was considering buying).

Any opinions?

 

[Frankie]

Just wondering if anyone used the info published by MARC concerning across breed comparisons. For 2008, some interesting trends continue:

Beefmasters continue to sire the highest numbers for weaning, Charolais for yearling, brahman for birthweight. I'm gonna be in a need of another bull this year; some intersting possibilities jump out. Shorthorn appears to have better #'s than Simmiental (the breed of bull I was considering buying).

Any opinions?

Do you have a link to the latest numbers?

 

[cypressfarms]

Do you have a link to the latest numbers?

Published in Summer of 2008:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Pl ... 08News.pdf

 

[Frankie]

Just wondering if anyone used the info published by MARC concerning across breed comparisons. For 2008, some interesting trends continue:

Beefmasters continue to sire the highest numbers for weaning, Charolais for yearling, brahman for birthweight. I'm gonna be in a need of another bull this year; some intersting possibilities jump out. Shorthorn appears to have better #'s than Simmiental (the breed of bull I was considering buying).

Any opinions?

You need to take time to read and understand the data on that link. Beefmasters don't necessarily have the highest numbers for weaning. They have the highest "adjustment factor", but you have to add that to the actual EPD of a specific bull.

 

[Jovid]

Just wondering if anyone used the info published by MARC concerning across breed comparisons. For 2008, some interesting trends continue:

Beefmasters continue to sire the highest numbers for weaning, Charolais for yearling, brahman for birthweight. I'm gonna be in a need of another bull this year; some intersting possibilities jump out. Shorthorn appears to have better #'s than Simmiental (the breed of bull I was considering buying).

Any opinions?

You need to take time to read and understand the data on that link. Beefmasters don't necessarily have the highest numbers for weaning. They have the highest "adjustment factor", but you have to add that to the actual EPD of a specific bull.

The table doesn't have any relevance to performance. It is just giving you the EPD equivalent for a category compared to other breeds.

 

[cypressfarms]

You need to take time to read and understand the data on that link. Beefmasters don't necessarily have the highest numbers for weaning. They have the highest "adjustment factor", but you have to add that to the actual EPD of a specific bull.

That goes without saying Frankie, and I have taken plenty of time and look at MARC's data every year for at least the last 5 or 6 years. However, they are all based on Black Angus as a 0 factor. Beefmaster has the highest weaning adjustment factor, so if you found bulls of varying breeds with the same weaning epd (for example if they all were 0), the beefmaster bull should wean bigger calves theoretically.

My question with the thread remains: does anyone even use these factors when determining a potential herd sire.

 

[cypressfarms]

The table doesn't have any relevance to performance. It is just giving you the EPD equivalent for a category compared to other breeds.

Ofcourse the comparison has a relevance to performance! If I were in the market to buy either an Angus bull or a Simmi bull to make baldies on hereford cows, I could compare the epd's directly to see which bull would sire calves that wean the best. From the 2008 data, if the angus bull had a ww weight of 23.3 points more than the Simmi, then he could be expected the wean heavier calves. I guess no one finds these studies valuable, but the are very valuable for me. How can you not look at adjustment factors if you are in the market for bulls of varying breeds???

 

[Frankie]

You need to take time to read and understand the data on that link. Beefmasters don't necessarily have the highest numbers for weaning. They have the highest "adjustment factor", but you have to add that to the actual EPD of a specific bull.

That goes without saying Frankie, and I have taken plenty of time and look at MARC's data every year for at least the last 5 or 6 years. However, they are all based on Black Angus as a 0 factor. Beefmaster has the highest weaning adjustment factor, so if you found bulls of varying breeds with the same weaning epd (for example if they all were 0), the beefmaster bull should wean bigger calves theoretically.

.

You can use the data however you want. But your theory isn't how MARC recommends using this table.

 

[cypressfarms]

You can use the data however you want. But your theory isn't how MARC recommends using this table.

Frankie, not to argue, but that is exactly how MARC recommends - and why they developed it - to allow the commercial cattleman a tool to compare bulls of differing breeds. What's so hard to understand?

 

[Frankie]

You can use the data however you want. But your theory isn't how MARC recommends using this table.

Frankie, not to argue, but that is exactly how MARC recommends - and why they developed it - to allow the commercial cattleman a tool to compare bulls of differing breeds. What's so hard to understand?

Yes this table was created to compare bulls of different breeds, not to compare breed to breed. And not to cherry pick data (find bulls with all 0 EPDs) so you can say one breed is better than another in a specific area.

 

[cypressfarms]

Yes this table was created to compare bulls of different breeds. Not to cherry pick data (find bulls with all 0 EPDs) so you can say one breed is better than another in a specific area.

Not my intention at all. I don't think I've ever had a reputation here for bashing or blindly praising any breed. I'm only in favor of the breed that will do the best for me, and give me the most money return possible. If that were Watusi, I'd do that!

 

[Frankie]

Yes this table was created to compare bulls of different breeds. Not to cherry pick data (find bulls with all 0 EPDs) so you can say one breed is better than another in a specific area.

Not my intention at all. I don't think I've ever had a reputation here for bashing or blindly praising any breed. I'm only in favor of the breed that will do the best for me, and give me the most money return possible. If that were Watusi, I'd do that!

Some people might look at this MARC table and your original post and say, wow, Beefmasters wean a calf that weighs 45 more pounds than Angus. Or Chars wean a calf that weighs 39 lbs more than Angus. That's not true; these numbers are only useful when attached to an individual bull's, of that breed, EPDs.

 

[cypressfarms]

Some people might look at this MARC table and your original post and say, wow, Beefmasters wean a calf that weighs 45 more pounds than Angus. Or Chars wean a calf that weighs 39 lbs more than Angus. That's not true; these numbers are only useful when attached to an individual bull's, of that breed, EPDs.

Some people may say that Angus people pad their epd numbers. I don't really care what people say, it doesn't pay my bills. You act as if your are scared for people to have all of these many tools to use when determining the direction of their herd.???????

This is nothing personal, please don't get so defensive. Truth is if a beefmaster bull and an Angus bull both had a WW of 0, the Beefmaster bull would sire a calf that weighs 45 more pounds. What's the problem with that? Everyone knows that black brings more $, so more pounds doesn't necessarily translate into more money. However, if you put that beefmaster bull on Angus cows it might.

By the way Frankie 80% of my combined herds are at least three quarters Angus, so I have no beef with Angus; but I will search out what gives the best return on my investment.

 

[Brandonm22]

This is nothing personal, please don't get so defensive. Truth is if a beefmaster bull and an Angus bull both had a WW of 0, the Beefmaster bull would sire a calf that weighs 45 more pounds. What's the problem with that? Everyone knows that black brings more $, so more pounds doesn't necessarily translate into more money. However, if you put that beefmaster bull on Angus cows it might.

BUT breed average for Angus is not zero. An average Angus sire today has a 42 weaning weight EPD and the avg young sire carries a 44.

http://www.angus.org/sireeval/breed_avg_epd.html

 

[CSM]

Cypress,
To answer your question, no I do not use the cross breed epd's.
But I think you need to listen to Frankie on this subject. You brought up Charolais, so lets look at them vs. Beefmaster. I have bull A. he is avg for Charolais with a ww epd of 23 plus adjustment of 39. You have bull B. he is avg for Beefmaster with a ww epd of 7 (year 2006 numbers) plus adjustment of 45. The Charolais epd for ww is 62, Beefmaster epd for ww is 52 based on breed averages.

CSM