Anybody measure how much their cows eat?

[djinwa]

Perhaps a dumb question, but what the heck.

I read people saying how their cow raised a whopper of a calf, and my first question is, at what cost.

Profit equals revenue minus expenses. It is easy to count the revenue when you sell calves, but how do you know what the cow cost?

A few years ago at the fair, I was talking to a guy with a very thick murray gray cow. He was praising her, but at the end he said, "But, boy, she sure eats alot!"

Which got me to thinking about the cost of muscle on a cow. Muscle burns alot of calories, which is why they say you want to keep your muscle mass up to avoid gaining fat.

So how do you know your best looking cows aren't your most expensive to keep if you don't know how much they eat?

I read of bull feed tests, but what about cows?

 

[Isomade]

Mine all get fed the same. Some stay in good condition and hard doers go to town. I know on average what it costs to keep one in my herd, so I guess you could say hard keepers cull themselves. That's the only way I know to do it.

 

[novatech]

I read of bull feed tests, but what about cows?

A highly efficient bull will influence a lot more heifers/cows than one cow.
Given that, the bull used to produce future cows must be the priority.
Selection of cows retained must usually be made from knowledge, observation, experience and common sense. A good record keeping system on progeny helps.

 

[djinwa]

Just trying to think this through.

If you keep the cows in good condition, how do you know they aren't the big eaters? At least many people I know in good condition like to eat.

I'm also wondering if an efficient bull for gaining weight is the same trait that makes an efficient cow.

That whole common sense thing is okay, except when it's wrong. You'd think there'd be some science behind this.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I don't directly measure how much they eat, but I do make a habit of observing their eating behavior. I rotationally graze with daily moves, so I see my cows at least once a day. When I move them to new forage, I will spend some time watching them eat. I find it kind of therapeutic :lol: Nothing like listening to cows eating IMO. :help: Anyway, I find some will stop eating and lay down while others are still foraging. Now I am just assuming they are all roughly getting the same intake per time of grazing. It is possible some just eat faster. Nothing scientific. I also notice some cows will get up and be the first to eat again. Normally my biggest, fattest cow (#16) is the first one to stop and the last one up - most of the time. She always raises a really nice calf as well. She breeds back well. She maintains good bcs year round on the forage I have. My milking cow, a Jersey, runs with the beef herd. She is normally the first up to eat and the last to stop and often you will see her eating in the middle of the day when the other cows are under a shade tree. The conclusion I came to is that the big, fat beef cow (#16) gets everything she needs in less time and probably consumes less on average than the thinner heavier milking dairy cow. Of course I realize the milk cow is producing more milk and has a higher demand. Not really a fair comparison, but it is the only example I have. A few years ago, I think it was 07 or 08, when we had a really dry year and I had to cull some cows. I used this information along with weaning weights to cull some cows that seemed to always be eating and raised dinky calves. They mostly got culled for raising small calves, one because she was open, but it made for an easy choice when I noticed they were the first up and eating and the last to stop. If I was just culling off weaning weights and for open cows, they would have all been culled anyway. That is how I attempt to measure a cows intake and how I attempt to select for more efficient cows. I wish it was more scientific. I think there are many ways to come to the same conclusion on cow efficiency. :2cents:

Like Iso said, if they are all subject to the same environment the hard doers show up and are culled. They show up for a variety of reasons - breeding back, weaning weights, health issues, etc. I think you will cull your less efficient cattle when you cull the ones who aren't making you any money. You just need to be paying attention and willing to get rid of the problem cows.

 

[KHereford]

I know a Hereford ranch that RFI (residual feed intake) test many or I think all there heifers and bulls. M and M herefords is there name and they do it at Green Springs Bull test with grow safe bunks. We take a sample (3 or 4) bulls and put them on test to see how they stack up against other breeders and what different genetics are more efficent. This year we had the high gaining and highest efficiency bull. As far as measuring mature cows Im not sure of anyone doing it but I bet there are some studies on it.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I know a Hereford ranch that RFI (residual feed intake) test many or I think all there heifers and bulls. M and M herefords is there name and they do it at Green Springs Bull test with grow safe bunks. We take a sample (3 or 4) bulls and put them on test to see how they stack up against other breeders and what different genetics are more efficent. This year we had the high gaining and highest efficiency bull. As far as measuring mature cows Im not sure of anyone doing it but I bet there are some studies on it.[/quote] theres studies on everything,,, gotta spend that borrowed money some where
:cowboy:

 

[herfdog]

I know a Hereford ranch that RFI (residual feed intake) test many or I think all there heifers and bulls. M and M herefords is there name and they do it at Green Springs Bull test with grow safe bunks. We take a sample (3 or 4) bulls and put them on test to see how they stack up against other breeders and what different genetics are more efficent. This year we had the high gaining and highest efficiency bull. As far as measuring mature cows Im not sure of anyone doing it but I bet there are some studies on it.

How much does it cost per bull for the test?

 

[KHereford]

I would have to look back on Green Springs bills. My dad sent his to Iowa this year and I cant remember the name of the place, something like Haynes? I didnt send any this year so I didnt have any bill. I know that since each bull has a RFID tag it measures eactly what they are eating and they charge you for what your bull is eating. There are other charges like semen test, bedding, scanning, and vet checks. I do have three bull calves that if they keep developing like they have been I will send up there next year. I will try and get a bill from my dad and let you know what the cost were but it will be a couple days. ALACOWMAN you bet they are spending that money on what goes in one end and comes out the other studies.

 

[herfdog]

I would have to look back on Green Springs bills. My dad sent his to Iowa this year and I cant remember the name of the place, something like Haynes? I didnt send any this year so I didnt have any bill. I know that since each bull has a RFID tag it measures eactly what they are eating and they charge you for what your bull is eating. There are other charges like semen test, bedding, scanning, and vet checks. I do have three bull calves that if they keep developing like they have been I will send up there next year. I will try and get a bill from my dad and let you know what the cost were but it will be a couple days. ALACOWMAN you bet they are spending that money on what goes in one end and comes out the other studies.

I would appreciate that. Thanks

 

[novatech]

The value of the grass conversion to meat and fat by a cow is only one part of the element in that some of those genetics will be passed on to the calf being raised. The cow is simply the machine producing the terminal product. The cow need not be easy fleshing but just have the ability to maintain itself in a fertile condition while converting grass to milk for the final product.
One could put the science to it, weighing all the inputs and outputs and the protein input and what was actually digested and turned into milk or beef, but then that becomes a matter of economic feasibility. All you really find out is what one cow is capable of, that will only produce maybe 15+/- calves in her life. The dollar input just does not justify the results obtained. Because of this it becomes necessary to buy for breed, type, and specific genetics obtained from EPD'S and a little luck of the draw. And you still need selection bases upon your specific environment.

 

[Douglas]

I would guess the best/only way of estimating how much grass a cow eats is to weigh her and her calf from time to time vs. the others. You won't get answers to exactly how much they eat, but which eat the most. You than then determine which cows are most efficient at producing calves lbs.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The value of the grass conversion to meat and fat by a cow is only one part of the element in that some of those genetics will be passed on to the calf being raised. The cow is simply the machine producing the terminal product. The cow need not be easy fleshing but just have the ability to maintain itself in a fertile condition while converting grass to milk for the final product.
One could put the science to it, weighing all the inputs and outputs and the protein input and what was actually digested and turned into milk or beef, but then that becomes a matter of economic feasibility. All you really find out is what one cow is capable of, that will only produce maybe 15+/- calves in her life. The dollar input just does not justify the results obtained. Because of this it becomes necessary to buy for breed, type, and specific genetics obtained from EPD'S and a little luck of the draw. And you still need selection bases upon your specific environment.

The genetic's get even more complicated you have X bull bred to Y and Z cow's producing great terminal calves.
Change out the bull and Y calf is up to standard Z's calf isn't worth a crap compared to what is was with the last bull. Same breed of bull as you have been running.
IMO it get's down to a cow that can maintain BCS while raising a calf on grass and calving every 12 month's.
Second she has to wean a calf within the herd average, if she wean's at the bottom I need a better cow.
She has culled herself as being the least efficient .

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Our system computes how much hay, salt, mineral, electricity well pump uses that is put out each month. We divided that dollar amount by the number of 1,000 A.U.'s we have. Includes all types and sizes of animals. We get a monthly and yearly average "cost" per A.U.

About the only way one could actually measure how much an animal eats would be to put it on a drylot condition and compute costs for that 1 animal. Not very practical, however.

Then, there is the "usage" value factor of how much grass an animal eats. Very difficult to measure and compute cost/value of this.

 

[djinwa]

theres studies on everything,,, gotta spend that borrowed money some where
:cowboy:

If you're talking about the government, believe it or not, the private sector can do studies.

I'm not necessarily saying every cow one has should be tested, but seems one would want to know what type of cow does best for their situation, and maybe if the type was adjusted, would the total herd consumption drop for the same production.

Kind of like a trucking company. Knowing how much your trucks can haul isn't enough - you'd want to know how much fuel they burn. The biggest engines possible probably aren't the most efficient.

To me the question would be how muscled do you want your cows. Sure, the cow gives a calf half it's genes, so a more muscular cow would make a more muscular calf, but the extra muscle makes her eat more all year long to support herself.

You would think the commercial guy would want a lighter muscled cow, that could put fewer calories toward body maintenance, and more toward milk for the calf. Breed her to a heavy muscled bull so the calf exceeds the muscle of the cow.

So I guess I'm wondering if a herd of good milking longhorns bred to Charolais wouldn't make more beef per pound of feed than your average angus bred to angus, or angus to Charolais.

 

[IluvABbeef]

To me the question would be how muscled do you want your cows. Sure, the cow gives a calf half it's genes, so a more muscular cow would make a more muscular calf, but the extra muscle makes her eat more all year long to support herself.

You would think the commercial guy would want a lighter muscled cow, that could put fewer calories toward body maintenance, and more toward milk for the calf. Breed her to a heavy muscled bull so the calf exceeds the muscle of the cow.

So I guess I'm wondering if a herd of good milking longhorns bred to Charolais wouldn't make more beef per pound of feed than your average angus bred to angus, or angus to Charolais.

I'm confused here. You're saying that a well-muscled cow or in this case a typical BEEF cow would eat more than a lighter-muscled cow (like a DAIRY cow) assuming their both lactating? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever; dairy cows are known to and do eat more than their beef counterparts because their bodies demand more nutrition and more input than a beef cow's body demands. Even in the dry period dairy cows still eat a lot, more than what beef cows do. So saying that the amount of muscle determines how much a cow eats is seemingly unrealistic, and not exactly correlated to feed or forage efficiency or the cost of feed.

Really, I think you can get lighter-muscled cows that eat more than well-muscled cows, and vice versa.