Any chance these guys will work.

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El_Putzo":1rtva6i6 said:
Rustler9":1rtva6i6 said:
I really don't have a dog in this fight but I don't understand why everyone gets so upset about this new breed. Whats' the difference in black Herefords and black anything else.....black beefmasters, black Charolais, black Simmentals, black Limousins? Should I go on? If we all wake up and realize the truth, none of these breeds turned black by a miracle from up above. Where did the black color come from in each of these breeds? Had to be Angus influence.

If I'm not mistaken, the problem lies in that all of those breeds you mentioned recognize the black animals in their breed registries. Hereford does not, hence the push to use some other name besides Black Hereford.

I also have to agree with putting a hereford bull on a group of steins and getting the same thing.

Exactly. Some breeds allow for breeding up, and the allowance of black animals to be introduced. The hereford breed does not. That is the difference. THe founders/developers of these "black herefords" made their own composite breed, then piggy backed onto one breed... plus, in the name they give no credit to the other part of the composite, like Brangus or Charbray, or Simbrah, or Braford. Maybe these could be called Angfords? Heregus? Just the way I see it.
 
RULE 2.2 Eligibility for Registration
Black Hereford animals of any age for which application for registration is made may be registered with the Association upon proof of compliance with the following requirements:

A. The animal must be a Black Hereford, as determined under the Rules of the Association.

1. Therefore, a bull or cow must EITHER:

a.) Have an ABHA registered sire and a American Hereford Association registered dam.
OR
b.) Have both ABHA registered sire and dam.
OR
c.) Be the product of a paring described in a.) which was not eligable to register due to hair color and an ABHA registered sire.
OR
d.) Be an American Black Hereford Association sire approved for admission by a 2/3 vote of the ABHA pursuant to Article II of the By-Laws.
OR
e.) Be the product of an ABHA sire and a F1 dam whose parentage is registered in the American Angus Association and the American Hereford Association.
 
I also found this article that doesn't seem to try to hide the fact that Angus was used to develop the Black Hereford breed. My opinion is and we all know what opinions are like, we all have one, they're no different than the other beef breeds that used Angus to jump on the black color wagon.

Back in the Black


By Candace Krebs

After 25 years in the registered cattle business, Joe Hoagland thinks he may have solved a modern-day dilemma — how to keep Herefords in the black. He's breeding cattle that retain the Hereford signature white face while acknowledging the market's preference for a black hide.

Joe and his wife Norma own and manage the American Black Hereford Association from their J&N Ranch near Leavenworth, Kan. When the Hoaglands started raising registered Herefords in the Kansas Flint Hills in 1978, white-faced red cattle were the predominant breed.

Later they bought the ranch near Kansas City — a location that seemed ideal for a registered cattle operation. They managed to sell about 40 bulls per year for a time, but then business dwindled. "We switched from Hereford to Angus when we couldn't sell our traditional Hereford bulls in this market," Hoagland says. But by then, at least six or seven other breeders were selling registered Angus in the surrounding county.

"Certified Angus Beef (CAB) catapulted Angus to the forefront," he observes. "The antithesis of that became the Hereford. And the Continental breeds were somewhere in between."

Despite the challenges, the Hoaglands wanted to stay in the purebred business. "We had the sale barn and the proximity to Kansas City where many of the breed associations are located," says Hoagland. "I've been active with the American Royal. We had a natural place for people to come out and look."

John Gage, another polled Hereford breeder in the area, set up the original Black Hereford association in 1974. The Hoaglands bought it in 1998, along with some of Gage's foundation seedstock.

"Herefords don't grade as well as Angus, and straight Hereford steers are pretty significantly discounted," Hoagland says. "But a Hereford-Angus cross will bring as much or more than an Angus and qualify for CAB status, as well as for the Certified Hereford Beef program."

So far, the couple has sold Black Hereford cattle into six states, and the association includes breeders in four states.

Black Herefords are developed by breeding an F1 black baldie cow to a registered Hereford bull to get a 3⁄4-blood black-whiteface calf. That animal crossed with another F1 results in a 5⁄8-blood calf. Statistically, traditional Angus-Hereford pairings produce red-hided calves 25 percent of the time. But in a 5⁄8-blood calf, the recessive genes for the red color are bred out and a genetically homozygous black animal results.
Rhonda Vann, a research animal scientist at Mississippi State University's Brown Loam Experiment Station, contacted the Hoaglands about including their cattle in carcass data trials starting last fall. The five-year project will use ultrasound information and live animal and carcass evaluations in comparisons that include traditional Angus and Hereford cattle.

"I've seen lots of breeds come and go," Vann says. "It's one of the natural cycles that happen in the cattle industry. Just because they're black doesn't always mean they're better. But I do think the English breeds are coming back."

While Black Hereford bulls bred to black cows produce consistently black, white-faced calves, Vann says many cattlemen would also like a black-baldie-type cow for their base cow herds.

Vann's research could become the basis for establishing carcass EPDs (estimated progeny differences). That's essential to the breed's success, since the cattle industry is increasingly driven by carcass performance, she says. "Our industry is really trying to push for a consistent, reliable product. We need to identify cattle
that work."

Jeff Hill, Land O'Lakes Farmland Feed beef specialist based at Lawrence, Kan., agrees. "The industry is trying to evolve into more niche marketing, including source-verification programs."

"Ten years ago, less than 5 percent of beef cattle were sold on some type of carcass quality basis," Hill adds. "Today we're getting close to 40 to 50 percent, and in another five years, the number could be 100 percent. Our industry is changing that fast."

Demand for high fertility and maternal traits are also part of the shift. "The trend in the '70s was toward much larger cows," Hill adds. "But the number one criterion for cow-calf profitability is the cost of production. A lot of that is the cost of the feed. Low feed costs are the traditional strength of British-type cattle.

"People are getting more business-minded about the industry; I think that will continue," he says. "I don't think we'd still be in the purebred business if we had not gone into Black Herefords," Hoagland adds. "It's fun to be involved in something new."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More information:

Joe Hoagland's web site, http://www.blackhereford.com, contains more information about Black Herefords and photos of the unique breed.
 
I got this information from the Black Hereford site, under the rules for registration eligibility:


e.) Be the product of an ABHA sire and a F1 dam whose parentage is registered in the American Angus Association and the American Hereford Association.
 
I understand that they admit they use Angus genetics. But by not putting it in the name and making you search for that type of info they are trying to give the impression of a purebred breed and not a composite breed. I have no problem with the formation of a registry of this type of animal, it is that they try to call themselves Herefords when they are not just herefords, they are a composite breed. Things might have changed since the last time this was discussed, but as far as i know there are no hereford associations that recognize Black as an acceptable color or the Black Herefords as actual herefords. If this has changed then I might rethink a few things, but until then that is how i see them.

Ryan
 
Texas26steerjock":7m19uhsm said:
see them how you want. Lots of registered breeds are made up from crossbreeding.

Yes. But a lot of registered breeds allow for crossbreeding (they just call it "breeding up"). Herefords do not. Many breeds derived from crossbreeding also use names like Brangus, Salorn or Braford to recognize the breeds they are made up of, or make a completely different name like Beefmaster, Santa Gertrudis or Santa Cruz to distinguish themselves from the other breeds...neither has been done in this case.
 
I agree that they should have another name that sets them aside as a cross. Such as limflex, balancers, and all the others.
 
The Black Herefords are no different than the development of many of the other breeds- Santa Gertrudis, Brangus, Braford, Beefmasters, Hays Converters, Luings, Maximizers, and a few more of the breeds...All done thru crossbreeding and then a closed herd breeding...

And when the continentals became the rage- due to the import restrictions from Europe, many of the exotic breeds recognized "percentage purebreds- in other words they were bred (usually by AI) until they reached 87% Simmental, Gelbvieh, whatever and were then called purebreds....
 
i applaud you sir. you hit the nail right on the head. Chis sure have come a long way from that orignally were as well as the maine cattle. its a breed i dont know what we keep arguing about. in my opinion if it is registerable, then it is a recognized breed.
 
Texas26steerjock":3n0k70u1 said:
if it is registerable, then it is a recognized breed.

The complaint is about using the name Hereford, you would think that it would have been trademarked or something. If they called them Drofereh or even Black Drofereh you wouldn't hear the squawking. They'ld still be the same thing, a composit, but wouldn;t be playing on another breeds name.

dun
 
Texas26steerjock":3sb5of20 said:
i applaud you sir. you hit the nail right on the head. Chis sure have come a long way from that orignally were as well as the maine cattle. its a breed i dont know what we keep arguing about. in my opinion if it is registerable, then it is a recognized breed.

What a load of BS!! It makes me sick that a breed of cattle is being pushed based solely on the fact it has turned black! What the **** happened to breeds of cattle being developed because of what they brought to the table! ie. more beef, better beef, easier doing, ect. Starting a breed of cattle just because of color makes me sick!!!!!!!! Have we as cattlemen lost all self respect?? Are we really just the pawn of whatever we are told to do?? What has ranching become that we only care about the color of our calves? :roll: :x
 
S.R.R.":3acmuhvp said:
Have we as cattlemen lost all self respect?? Are we really just the pawn of whatever we are told to do?? What has ranching become that we only care about the color of our calves? :roll: :x

As Tonto asked the Lone Ranger, "What you me we white man?" Not all people are willing or have the desire to follow the herd as it were and can't and shouldn;t be lumped together.

dun
 
S.R.R.":1wamxd0m said:
Starting a breed of cattle just because of color makes me sick!!!!!!!! Have we as cattlemen lost all self respect??
Who ever accused the people that will start a breed of cattle just for the color, of being Cattlemen or having any self-respect.
S.R.R.":1wamxd0m said:
What has ranching become that we only care about the color of our calves? :roll: :
It seems that many people think that ranching has become just a rich mans game.
 
S.R.R.":1x3rhqka said:
Strike 1
Strike 2

Mod1

:roll: Not again :shock: Dang I am sorry Mod1 but there is nothing wrong with me expressing a few be nice thoughts about the fact we as ranchers have got way off track when we start new breeds of cattle based on nothing more then their color. It is a disgrace to think we now start breeds for black. Not good musceling, good growth ect.!!!!!
 
S.R.R.":qourll89 said:
S.R.R.":qourll89 said:
Strike 1
Strike 2

Mod1

:roll: Not again :shock: Dang I am sorry Mod1 but there is nothing wrong with me expressing a few be nice thoughts about the fact we as ranchers have got way off track when we start new breeds of cattle based on nothing more then their color. It is a disgrace to think we now start breeds for black. Not good musceling, good growth ect.!!!!!

If this isn't the first time, with any luck it will be the last. You've been around here long enough to know what's allowed and what isn't. I saw it before it was deleted and that definitly isn't allowed.

dun
 
how bout that new black hereford advertisement in the "progressive" farmer this month??
 

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