Any chance these guys will work.

[Alan]

I would like to see a pedigree of one of these foundation bulls, just to see how it was developed. How far back do you find angus and how much Red hereford is in it. Anything besides angus? I assuming it's a product of crossing black angus with hereford.

Alan

 

[Frankie]

One of the many problems with allowing a breed to startup and be reg. based on color only is that next year when some new rancher comes along and wants to start raising cattle they may pick the BH. Now you have some poor sole wondering why his cattle have such a poor body structure and look like crap? No one bothered to tell him that the kind of cattle he chose to raise was developed not on a foundation of good forage ability, good muscling, good marbling, or good mothering ability's, but rather nothing more then the fact they were black and white!!!

Wasn't that how Red Angus started? They picked the reds that couldn't be registered as Angus? And they seem to be doing very well these days. I seriously doubt that the Red Angus people or the Black Hereford people simply use color as the criteria for establishing their breeds.

 

[Alan]

One of the many problems with allowing a breed to startup and be reg. based on color only is that next year when some new rancher comes along and wants to start raising cattle they may pick the BH. Now you have some poor sole wondering why his cattle have such a poor body structure and look like crap? No one bothered to tell him that the kind of cattle he chose to raise was developed not on a foundation of good forage ability, good muscling, good marbling, or good mothering ability's, but rather nothing more then the fact they were black and white!!!

Wasn't that how Red Angus started? They picked the reds that couldn't be registered as Angus? And they seem to be doing very well these days. I seriously doubt that the Red Angus people or the Black Hereford people simply use color as the criteria for establishing their breeds.

Frankie did you read most of the reasoning behind Black Herefords at the association web site?

http://www.blackhereford.com

Alan

 

[Frankie]

Frankie did you read most of the reasoning behind Black Herefords at the association web site?

http://www.blackhereford.com

Alan

Since we raise Angus, I don't have a dog in this fight. But it's obvious that color wasn't the only consideration in establishing the breed, just as it wasn't in the Red Angus. Seeing how many breeds have started a black line of cattle to copy Angus, I just have to laugh at the trauma of the Hereford breeders on this board. Guys, get over it. They're not Herefords, just like Red Angus aren't Angus. If they have the traits commercial cattlemen are looking for, they'll be successful. If not, they won't.

 

[Frankie]

I think that the Black Herefords will have a good chance of making it because of the hide color. Hey they can qualify for CAB .... but not CHB .

Alan

Of course they can qualify for CHB. Unless they've changed the rules, CHB says "Phenotype 51% white face and Hereford markings." These guys have both.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/chb.htm

 

[Alan]

All I'm saying is it is too bad an association is starting a breed based on color. It is obvious that black is in because of the great job CAB has done marketing black. But in any species I think you should strive for the best preformer, not the best color. As far as ABHA, they are going after a wide open market and probably have some good opurtunities to be successful. They already qualify for CAB and have the "in" at the sale barn. And if they ever become a third type of Hereford with the AHA who knows.

Alan

 

[Alan]

I think that the Black Herefords will have a good chance of making it because of the hide color. Hey they can qualify for CAB .... but not CHB .

Alan

Of course they can qualify for CHB. Unless they've changed the rules, CHB says "Phenotype 51% white face and Hereford markings." These guys have both.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/beef/chb.htm

I, once again, stand corrected. I was under the impression to qualify for CHB the cattle must have a red hide white face. I see now they allow a black and roan hide also (with a white, yellow face) So the ABHA qualifies for the CAB and CHB, Hum, maybe time to switch to Black and get on near the ground floor.


Alan

 

[Frankie]

...maybe time to switch to Black and get on near the ground floor.

Alan

You're kidding. Right? :shock:

Of course, you can switch to Angus and get in ON (not near) the ground floor.

 

[Alan]

...maybe time to switch to Black and get on near the ground floor.

Alan

You're kidding. Right? :shock:

Of course, you can switch to Angus and get in ON (not near) the ground floor.

A: Yes I was kidding, I'll stay with Polled Herefords.

B: I was talking about switching to Black Herefords not Angus.

But you may be happy to know that I sold my Hereford bull and next spring I'll start AIing Polled Hereford semen on my own. I will buy a Black Angus bull to use as a clean up bull.... so I expect to have all Black Baldy calves running around here for a few years.

Alan

 

[Beefy]

i thought red angus were a naturally ocurring phenomena at first whereas black herefords were "made" from the get-go.

I dont have a BIG problem with black beefmasters but i would frown upon a Black Beefmaster Association when i got thru laughing.

 

[Frankie]

A: Yes I was kidding, I'll stay with Polled Herefords.

B: I was talking about switching to Black Herefords not Angus.

But you may be happy to know that I sold my Hereford bull and next spring I'll start AIing Polled Hereford semen on my own. I will buy a Black Angus bull to use as a clean up bull.... so I expect to have all Black Baldy calves running around here for a few years.

Alan

Yes, that does make me happy, both the AIing and the Angus bull. IMO, AI is the best way to improve your herd, no matter the breed. Have some friends who bought a Char bull to clean up after their AI work. They have no problem telling whether the calf is a result of the Angus AI or the natural breeding. Their kids are involved with the county steer feedout program and they're taking it very seriously. They've done well with the straight Angus, consistantly have something in the top group. But they haven't topped the program. They've got the first calves on the ground, so it'll be interesting to see how it works out for them.

 

[la4angus]

i thought red angus were a naturally ocurring phenomena at first whereas black herefords were "made" from the get-go.

Beefy, You are correct.

 

[TnWI]

A real scam would be if their balls were plastic and duct taped on and you actually had steers.

OH I gotta remember that one!