Any Advice?

[Z&J Cattle]

Hello Everybody, I have been reading the boards for several months now and everyone seems to be very friendly and helpful, so I thought that I would register and pick some of you guys (and gals) brains a little bit. I am a novice in the beef cattle business. I have been helping a co-worker with his cows to get my "hands on" experience and reading everything that I can get my hands on to supplement the hands on stuff. I only have one cow/calf pair now, but I am constantly searching for more. Man they are high! Anyway, I am in the process of purchasing 16 acres of ground. The ground is flat and the soil is pretty sandy. The land around it is primarily cotton/soybeans. In fact, the land that I am purchasing has soybeans planted on it at this time and I am going to have to wait until the fall before I can really do much. I am going to have soil tests done to let me know where I stand and what I need to add to the soil. Everyone says that this area should grow Excellent Bermuda. I am starting with a bare field. No fence, no grass, no nothing! What I am looking at doing is possibly seeding part of it in rye grass this fall and supplementing with hay and grain throughout the winter, then working up all of it next spring and seeding with 100% bermuda. Basically, I am just looking for advice, or obvious things that I need to do/problems that I may encounter or just anything that you guys have to throw in. I am all ears (or eyes technically I guess. lol) Sorry for the long post, I tend to be a bit windy. Thanks in advance for any advice or ideas.

Zach

 

[greenwillowherefords]

First of all, welcome.

I'm waiting for the real gurus like Caustic, Dun, Camp,Texan etc to weigh in on this one, but it seems to me that your problem lies in the time that it will take to get a stand of grass established enough to graze. With that in mind, I believe what Iwould do is: plant a portion of it in a good fescue that will make you some cool season grass, and I think can be planted in the fall. That should give them some grazing quicker. Then plant the rest in bermuda for hot weather grazing. Both these will be something that is more than a temporary quick fix that will have to be tilled back under. But, I don't know that much about this.

 

[Rookie]

Hi Zach, I be not but a bit further down this road than you be, but welcome to the board. Ya be in the right place ta learn about cows. Good luck..............george

 

[Bama]

Welcome, I also would sow it in fescue or rye. Get your first cutting of hay if possible. Then cut up half of it for bermuda. That sandy soil should be great for it. You still have some fescue for the fall and grazing while the bermuda is coming up. Then cut the bermuda for hay and if you want to you can sow bermuda on the other half the next year or leave some fescue for longer grazing. This is just my idea I sure there are better solutions out there. Good luck in your adventure.

 

[msscamp]

First of all, welcome.

I'm waiting for the real gurus like Caustic, Dun, Camp,Texan etc to weigh in on this one, but it seems to me that your problem lies in the time that it will take to get a stand of grass established enough to graze. With that in mind, I believe what Iwould do is: plant a portion of it in a good fescue that will make you some cool season grass, and I think can be planted in the fall. That should give them some grazing quicker. Then plant the rest in bermuda for hot weather grazing. Both these will be something that is more than a temporary quick fix that will have to be tilled back under. But, I don't know that much about this.

Is there any reason that he couldn't mix the fescue and bermuda so that when the weather gets hot and the fescue dies back he doesn't have a big bare patch and vice versa?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm not much on what to plant. But I would suggest putting up HiTensile fence for your parimeter. You can use temporary fence on the interior paddocks until you figure our where you permanently want to divide your 16 acres.
I run 3 strand HiTensile. All 3 strands CAN be electric, but I usually just run the center strand hot. Than, after a few years, we put up 1 strand hiTensile for permanent divisions for the main paddocks. When the grass comes on strong in later spring/summer, we divide the main paddocks with polywire into smaller paddocks.
You need to be planning on how to water them also.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

First of all, welcome.

I'm waiting for the real gurus like Caustic, Dun, Camp,Texan etc to weigh in on this one, but it seems to me that your problem lies in the time that it will take to get a stand of grass established enough to graze. With that in mind, I believe what Iwould do is: plant a portion of it in a good fescue that will make you some cool season grass, and I think can be planted in the fall. That should give them some grazing quicker. Then plant the rest in bermuda for hot weather grazing. Both these will be something that is more than a temporary quick fix that will have to be tilled back under. But, I don't know that much about this.

Is there any reason that he couldn't mix the fescue and bermuda so that when the weather gets hot and the fescue dies back he doesn't have a big bare patch and vice versa?

Yes, that would be a good idea to sow the bermuda over the entire area when it became time to plant it, and if so desired, you could sow the entire plot in fescue first.

 

[BC]

Welcome to the boards. I like the advice about putting some of your land into fescue and some into bermuda. Not all your eggs in one basket. The fescue will give winter and early spring grazing while the bermuda will give summer production. Jeane's advice on going to a rotational system makes good sense for a small place.

You might also want to consider putting in the bermuda grass and let it get well established by cutting hay the first year. You can graze the second year and then drill in cereal rye, oats or wheat the second fall. Run stocker calves instead of cow-calf pairs. More beef produced per acre. Another advantage to this is you don't own cattle during an extended dry spell (drought), just when you have grass.

 

[BC]

Had another idea just after clicking the submit button. Consider adding clover or some type of legume to your mix.

By the way, what part of northeast Arkansas are you located?

 

[Z&J Cattle]

Thanks for the replies everyone. BC, I am located near Jonesboro (Trumann to be exact), but the land that I am buying is about 6 miles to the Northeast of me. I plan to possibly eventually build a house out there. You say to run stocker cows to have more profit, well I have seriously considered that and talked to a few people that I know that have experience in both and they say that it is a ton more work to do the stockers. I just don't know if it will be feasible to do that on top of a full time job. My grandfather owns a large ranch about 120 miles from me and they run feeder steers only and are profiting very well from them, but this is a very large operation. I just don't know if it will pan out that much better considering the extra work for the little guy like myself. Any other thoughts?

 

[greenwillowherefords]

There is also the fact that stockers do not have the same intangible satisfaction factor of knowing that they are the results of your breeding decisions, etc.

 

[stocky]

lots of good thoughts have already been expressed. my area has some good bermuda grass ground and alot that isnt good. my area is great fescue ground. wherever the bermuda is, it spreads and kills out the fescue. so, from my limited bermuda experience, i dont think you can sow the fescue in the bermuda sod or vice versa. it is good advice to put part of the acres in fescue and part in bermuda. also very good advice to put in rye or wheat in the bermuda stand the second fall and add clovers to both fescue and bermuda. with the price of cattle so high right now, i would be careful and not overextend myself buying the cattle. dont go pay a sky high price unless you can afford to do it. get what you really want or need, not just what someone is trying to sell you. cows will be cheaper someday and unless you have alot of available money, be patient

 

[WORANCH]

my area is great fescue ground. wherever the bermuda is, it spreads and kills out the fescue. so, from my limited bermuda experience, i dont think you can sow the fescue in the bermuda sod or vice versa. it is good advice to put part of the acres in fescue and part in bermuda.

You can over seed your bermuda with fescue . The bermuda will not kill out the fescue. Just graze the fescue short and the bermuda will grow and In the fall the fescue will come back.
If you want to keep the fescue out of the bermuda you will have to roundup the field when the bermuda is dormant.

 

[stocky]

woranch, my limited bermuda experience is based on my fescue pastures. i have a solid stand of fescue, but there are a few places that bermuda got started, probably from hay fed. what started out as small areas of bermuda now are several patches that range from a couple of acres to about 5 acres in each place and are getting bigger each summer as it spreads. the bermuda is great in the summer, so i am fertilizing it go keep it spreading, but there is no fescue left anywhere that the bermuda has spread. it is solid bermuda and it was solid fescue. this is just what happened at my place

 

[SF]

You only have one cow/calf pair for now, so get the pasture going before you buy more.

You have a couple of options. Bermuda pasture can be great, but it is very hard to establish. If you choose to go this route, here are my recommendations:

I'd plant about 1/4 of the pasture with annual rye grass and unhulled bermuda seed. I'd do this in late summer or early fall. The bermuda will lay dormant until spring. I'd plant the remaining 3/4 with unhulled bermuda seed at the same time.

Make sure you do not cover your bermuda seed too deep. Only 1/4 inch or so. Deeper seeds will not grow. Too shallow, they will not have enough moisture to germininate.

Another option is to plant fescue this fall and run your cows on fescue pasture. There are some challenges to this, and I'm not an expert on fescue. If you choose to go this route, you will need to talk to someone more familiar with pasturing cattle on fescue to the necessary steps to avoid fescue poisioning.

Good luck with your choices and welcome to the boards.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

I don't know if this makes any sense for you, but I think I'd be inclined to try it, at least until permanent pastures get well established. On a small portion of the acreage, maybe 2 or 3 acres, I might disc it up and broadcast something like haygrazer or pearl millet to get some quick (and good) grazing during the warm season and then disc again and plant something like ryegrass, cereal rye, winter wheat, etc. for cool season grazing.

 

[jerry27150]

don't know much about bermuda as it doesn't grow here. i think you could definately seed with rye grass & ark-plus fescue this fall & have excellent pasture next year. would check with some one about seeding bermuda this fall with the mixture. know some people down there & they love bermuda.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

I have both bermuda and fescue on my lease, and neither has killed the other out. Maybe it depends on the variety, Stocky?

I have never had the fescue poisoning over here, but a former cattle partner nearly lost a cow, and did lose her calf over it. The key is keeping the right mineral always available. RA-ANNA-MAG is what I use, as it protects against annaplasmosis as well. It is my experience that the fescue grazing season is much longer than that of bermuda.

Winter wheat is something I occasionally plant in bare spots as well.

 

[BC]

I lived at Tyronza for two years when I first got out of college and was teaching school. Nice people there, but I missed East Texas and the cattle business. You are right about the stockers taking more management, but given your acreage, you would not have enough cattle to warrant a bull for cow/calf. A.I. is good but it too is time and labor intense. You could run two sets of stockers a year. We kid ourselves about being cattlemen, in reality we are grass farmers selling our product through a beef or dairy animal.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[msscamp]

First of all, welcome.

I'm waiting for the real gurus like Caustic, Dun, Camp,Texan etc to weigh in on this one, but it seems to me that your problem lies in the time that it will take to get a stand of grass established enough to graze. With that in mind, I believe what Iwould do is: plant a portion of it in a good fescue that will make you some cool season grass, and I think can be planted in the fall. That should give them some grazing quicker. Then plant the rest in bermuda for hot weather grazing. Both these will be something that is more than a temporary quick fix that will have to be tilled back under. But, I don't know that much about this.

Is there any reason that he couldn't mix the fescue and bermuda so that when the weather gets hot and the fescue dies back he doesn't have a big bare patch and vice versa?

Yes, that would be a good idea to sow the bermuda over the entire area when it became time to plant it, and if so desired, you could sow the entire plot in fescue first.

Thanks! I'm not experienced or knowledgable with the planting side. People do that with their lawns in Georgia, but I didn't know if it would work with the cow traffic.