another stocker/pasture ?

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labman

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Another stocker/pasture question

Long time reader, first time poster

Background-usually maintain 3 cow/calf setups on 20 acre homestead, mainly for kids to be involved in animal production and reap the associated benefits.

Proposition
Recently renewed a 5 year hunting lease in west Texas- Haskell and Throckmorton counties, great lease, good terms etc. Absentee landowner advises he has 2 properties in Denton and Cooke counties set up mostly for cattle operations. 1-640 acre pasture, another 400 acre pasture. Both look to be in decent to good shape, have not been grazed since fall of '03 due to continuing problems with old lessee.

Grass looks good, decent tree coverage for shade, at least 3 5-6 acre tanks, several mud tanks that are currently holding water. Probably ¾ of the acreage is pasture, supposedly sprayed in spring of '04 for weeds.

Questions
Given the info,
• what would be the carrying capacity range for a stocker setup ( would rather not go to local AG agent, although Denton/Cooke guys maybe great)
• What would be the best time of year to run a stocker set up-spring to fall, April –June , etc given this setup
• What do stocker setups look for as an ADG to be profitable.

Issues
• Financial strength, while always an issue, isn't a deal killer by any stretch
• Big worry about cattle prices sustainability
• Landowner probably wants more safeguarding of property than top dollar for lease, long term lease definitely available

Any suggestions as to what a decent $/acre price for lease would be, any other suggestions, potential issues etc?

What would stocking strategy be over a 2-3 window?

Thanks
 
A few questions I would consider:

1. Do you have equipment to handle and haul cattle? Trailer, truck, etc. It really takes a rather large trailer and large Gooseneck trailers cost $$$. So does a 3/4 ton truck.
2. What sort of facilities does the pasture have ie pens, crowding pens, alley and chute? Do you have to go out and buy a portable set up? Once again $$ is involved if you don't have any of this. A decent portable chute like a WW or Priefert with a wishbone trailer to move it around will run you north of 2 grand. Probably looking at 6 grand minimun for an entire portable setup.
3. If you leased these properties, how are you planning on penning your cattle for working/shipment. That is a bunch of land to cover and penning cattle will take several experienced people to do. You can hire cowboys to pen them, but that costs money.
4. Vaccinations? If you buy from a sale barn, it is always buyer beware. You will have to plan on how you are going to vaccinate/worm them when you add to the place.
5. Who is responsible for the fences lessor or lessee?
6. Liability insurance to protect yourself if your cattle gets out on a road and decides to play chicken with an oncoming vehicle.
7. Prices are higher in the spring and lower in the fall. Being vigilant in controlling your cost is the only way not the get soaked.
8. Prices will go down once you buy a load of cattle. It's Murphy's Law.

These are just a few considerations...

We leased our 340 acres in Gonzales county a while back. Our place has improved pastures, working pens, and good fencing dividing the place into several paddocks.
Lessee was responsible for weed killing, fertilizing a 30 acre Kleingrass hay field that he cut for his use, and maintaining fences.
Bottom line is we leased for $13 an acre annually, but we had a tennant that cared about our place and did what he said he would do. We can run 1 AU per 5 acres down here.

More than cattle prices, I would worry about the money you need to outlay in order just to bring cattle in and how you will manage just to handle them. Just my two cents.
 
THanks for a very insightful answer.

Chutes, pens etc are adequate on the large pasture, I can probably get by for awhile on the small pasture with what I have on my place-bought with what little $$/depreciation I've made doing what I do on a small scaleover the years.

Fences are in decent condition, repair would be a negotiable item for the lease. Both pastures are cross fenced in a well though out manner.

My partner and I would do the vac's. We've got plenty of labor between the 2 of us between sons, and company laborers who already help out some on other projects.

We're short on adequate trailers, but have several 3/4 and 1 ton PU's from current business. Liability insurance is covered, just need a rider on current biz/personal coverage.

You can bet when I buy, the green lite goes off in the pit and everyone who has cattle contracts either sells or goes short. Same when I sell.

I've spoke with several operators in my area who are looking to place some cows on pasture for short periods of time, which woud alleviate a bunch of issues with round-up and initial health concerns. But to make this work, my partner and I would definitely have to buy some large lots to take advantage of the economies of scale associated with this project.

TXcowboy, thanks for the post, raised some good issues and led me to consider seevral more.
 

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