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another sick calf question

Toby L.

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About 3 weeks ago I bought a couple of heifer calves from a guy that raises bottle calves a couple days old, and weans them and sells them when there 8 to 12 weeks old. He had some sickly looking calves in there but yet most of them looked pretty good. The pair I bought were 10 weeks old. There shorthorn Holstein cross, 1 of the pair was a little smaller than the other one even though there was only 3 days different in there age. The guy told me that the smaller one was free martin which didn't matter to me, because if it was, I’m going to butcher it anyway. I noticed it was coughing a little, and I was very hesitant to buy them, but he dropped the price down a little so I did. Anyway, a couple days go by and I noticed the calf was coughing a lot more and was wheezy. The next morning it was lying down and when it breathed it sounded more like a gurgle. I wasn't sure if it had a cold or beginning to get pneumonia, so I started it on a series of penicillin, 10mg. twice a day for 5 days. Its breathing cleared up right away, but I still finished up the series. As I'm feeding these guys out, it looks to me like this little one isn't growing at all, but the other one took right off and is growing good. The little one is still pretty skinny, and a couple days ago I noticed that it's breathing is really fast and shallow and it's coughing a little bit more now, and shivering pretty bad now, but when I go in there she gets up and runs around and acts pretty health and strong. The guy I bought them from had them on a 22% Purina mix, the only thing we have in this town is a 16% calf starter that the feed mill mixes. I fed them about half of the bag that the guy gave me then I started mixing it with the 16% until the Purina was gone, now there getting the 16%. They were doing pretty good with that until a couple days ago, now they both stopped eating. I don't know what’s going on there either. If it has something to do with why the little one is sick, or what? I was thinking of putting her on another series of antibiotics, or maybe mixing some powder with there grain. Maybe I should club the little one in the head if it's going to give me so many problems. (I’ve read some past posts about some sick calves and others comments about the solution) I don't think it's a life and death problem at this time, I just want to keep on top of it cause I know how fast things can change. Oh ya, and I have experience with cattle, but this is the first time I've bought calves this young. Usually the mother's take pretty good care of them.
And I'm still not convinced that this calf was as old as the previous owner claimed she is. When I go in there she still walks up to me looking for a nipple to suck on, but took to the grain pretty good. What is everyone elses take on this?
 

dun

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Give it some real antibiotics, you'll have to get them from the vet. As a precaution I would giver the other calf a shot too.
Whar besides the grain stuff are the getting to eat?
 

Toby L.

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I throw a little bit of hay in with them and they seem to like that more than the grain, I forgot to post that I've been feeding the 2 of them 6 pnds twice a day, they used to eat all that now theres always leftovers.
 

dun

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They need hay or pasture along with the grain. A certain amount of roughage to keep there huts working properly. They should each be eating 3-5 pouinds of grain a day split into 2 feedings plus the hay.
 

larryshoat

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As dun said they need some good antibiotics, my choice in a calf that size is Draxxin along with Bovi-Shield 5 Gold now and again in 14 days . If they wiil drink from a bottle I would give them a little milk every day until they are back eating feed . If the 2 are eating together it is hard to determine what each is eating . In other words if 2 are eating 3 lbs each and 1 stops eating then that leaves 6lbs for 1 to eat, 1 calf over fed and the other starving to death .

Larry
 

Toby L.

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I picked up some Oxytetracycline today. I administered 10 mg each tonight and if they aren't looking any better I will give them another dose tomorrow. My wife and I were talking earlier today, and came to the conclusion that if they don't start eating more then we'll have to pick up some milk replacer and try that. They didn't consume hardly any water today, and there is still the feed I put in last night, I add a little more everyday so they can get some fresh stuff but they act like they don't even care. And an other thing that bugs me is that the bigger one of the two will grind it's teeth, kind of like it's chewing it's cud with no cud in it's mouth. kind of reminds me of a meth addict I once known. If they take a turn or the worse I'll post it in the morning otherwise I'll post a progress report tomorrow night. Thanks.
 

Toby L.

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I will take the advise when I get it. I work during the day and as of this morning nothing was said about real drugs. Dun mentioned getting some antibotics from a vet. I didn't know that la-200 was junk, thats why I come on this board and ask questions. There is alot of valuable information from all the posters in this forum, but what good does it do if no one wants to ask a newbie question? So they can be cut down by others?
 

kenny thomas

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A calf grinding it's teeth is a sign that it is sick. It needs something besides penn. and oxytec.
As you might notice most experienced people on this forum do not use penn. for anything. It just is not strong enough for todays problems. Also I oxytec will not do anything for pneumonia but it is not junk, it is just for other things.
Notice everyone says avoid the sale barns but you can get problems from the farm also. Treat any problem as soon as it is noticed and the results will be much better. Don't wait until tomorrow to see if it is better.
From someone who buys around 200 head from the SALE BARN each year.
While I was think and writing Baxter told you about the same thing.
Keep asking questions it is much cheaper than making mistakes.
 

angie1

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First of all, a sick calf is never a good deal ~ even if its free. Second ~ do just as Larry says, also give them banamine and probiotics. The BovaShield he is talking about is a vaccination, not an antibiotic (I personally do not give vaccinations to calves that are sick or calves that are getting antibiotics as I believe it further stresses the calf and the immune system, but he does this alot more than me). For sure offer them a bottle ~ anything to get something into them, they will go down too fast not drinking water as you say, and eating poorly. What is their temp?

If worse comes to worse, please reconsider clubbing the little one on the head. Use a gun or let your vet take care of it (sorry, wouldn't be me if I didn't address that!).

Don't be afraid to ask questions, let us know how it goes, and best of luck!
 

Toby L.

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Update, I went to check on them this morning and nothing improved. (of course) So I mix up a batch of generic milk replacer that my wife bought a while back, one of the kind they make to suite all animals. I go back out there and once they found out what I had in the bucket I nearly got run over. They drank that gallon up like it was nothing, and wanted more. So I took 8oz. of it and mixed it with 5 pds of their grain, and poured it out there. Nothing, they looked at me like I was crazy. Now a part of me wants to mix up 5 gallons of this and get their bellies full, but reason tells me to take it easy. The ingredients of the milk replacer is soy this, soy that, so it looks like I'll be picking up some good stuff today. I called the vet and left a message, just waiting for him to return my call. he's the one we use for the horses and I guess cattle is his specialty. Thanks Baxter for taking it easy on me, I'll get some batamine from the vet hopefully I can administer it even though I gave them the oxytetracline last night. I'll let you know what the vet says.
 

Toby L.

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The vet called back, he told me to take their temp and what he figured it should come back to 103, and it was. He told me to keep giving them the la-200 and 1 c.c. per hundred pnds of banamine. It just so happens that my wife has some in case any of the horses colic. And to keep checking their temp and in 3 or 4 days it should come down. He said the biggest thing now is getting them to keep eating what ever there comfortable with because that's what will kill them now. So now I'm off to give them their shots now and go to town and get some decent milk replacer. O, and another thing, if it is brd do should I worry bery much about it getting to the rest of the herd? There all older cows, with a yearling bull. Their pen is next to the calves but they don't eat or drink together.
 

dun

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Toby L.":3pzkbfv0 said:
The vet called back, he told me to take their temp and what he figured it should come back to 103, and it was. He told me to keep giving them the la-200 and 1 c.c. per hundred pnds of banamine. It just so happens that my wife has some in case any of the horses colic. And to keep checking their temp and in 3 or 4 days it should come down. He said the biggest thing now is getting them to keep eating what ever there comfortable with because that's what will kill them now. So now I'm off to give them their shots now and go to town and get some decent milk replacer. O, and another thing, if it is brd do should I worry bery much about it getting to the rest of the herd? There all older cows, with a yearling bull. Their pen is next to the calves but they don't eat or drink together.

If the others are up to date on their vaccinations it shouldn;t be a problem
 

angie1

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Just a side note ~ you mention wanting to give them more milk replacer than recommended. I understand the temptation but don't do it, you will end up with more problems than what you have. I am disappointed your vet suggested LA200.
 

Toby L.

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Went out about an hour ago to cheak on them again. there doing much better, they were picking through their grain. So I mixed up another batch of milk replacer. They each had their own bucket and slurped down 2 quarts in about thirty seconds. I'm going to go out around 7 tonight and feed them again I think I'll give them 4 quarts each and see how they like that. The vet also told me that the reason the one is chewing is because it's in pain. And he told me to up the la-200 to 12 cc each. And if he figured that using a better antiobotic would make that much difference I'm sure he would've made some money and sold me some. He said that he wouldn't be in my neck of the woods till next week, because he's preg. cheaking cows elsewhere.
 

angus9259

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angie":7zavt1qx said:
Just a side note ~ you mention wanting to give them more milk replacer than recommended. I understand the temptation but don't do it, you will end up with more problems than what you have. I am disappointed your vet suggested LA200.


Agreed and agreed.
 

larryshoat

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angus9259":41bx0nlc said:
angie":41bx0nlc said:
Just a side note ~ you mention wanting to give them more milk replacer than recommended. I understand the temptation but don't do it, you will end up with more problems than what you have. I am disappointed your vet suggested LA200.


Agreed and agreed.

Absolutely, right on target angie :tiphat: .

Larry
 

Toby L.

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Things were looking good today, now there not so good. The bigger of the 2 is doing alot better tonight, even though they didn't drink any milk replacer. But I don't think the smaller one is going to make it through tonight. There's alot of ups and downs. Why would the vet say to keep going on the la-200? Maybe I should have put forth the extra effort to get some nuflor, but he didn't seem to concered about it, so I wasn't either, then I read about the dissapointments everyone has about that desion. I guess time will tell, maybe it was to late anyway. Learn something new everyday.
 

hillsdown

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I hate these posts and I will bite my tongue from what I really want to say...

Next time, demand the meds needed, if the vet won't give them to you, demand that they get their @ss out to see the [email protected] animal(animals) ,if they say they are to busy DEMAND real meds..

It is hard enough to treat the sick ones with the good meds ,but this is ???????
 

msscamp

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Toby L.":3goks2iv said:
I'm going to go out around 7 tonight and feed them again I think I'll give them 4 quarts each and see how they like that.

I'm thinking I'm too late, but I would strongly suggest you reconsider this! To double their milk - especially since you've switched from soy to a good milk replacer, and they are already having health issues - in this short of a time frame is sending an engraved invitation for trouble!
 

angie1

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msscamp":1xzzssaq said:
Toby L.":1xzzssaq said:
I'm going to go out around 7 tonight and feed them again I think I'll give them 4 quarts each and see how they like that.

I'm thinking I'm too late, but I would strongly suggest you reconsider this! To double their milk - especially since you've switched from soy to a good milk replacer, and they are already having health issues - in this short of a time frame is sending an engraved invitation for trouble!
ugh. I am thinking it would not have made a difference if you posted first or late. He has already been advised not to do it, and plans to. It has already been suggested to him by several that he NOT use the LA200, and he is.

God feeds the birds, but he doesn't whip a worm in the nest ~ we can only do so much.
 

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