another question about the twins

[rockridgecattle]

hi,
okay, so all is well sort of. I thought Ozzie and Harreit were doing fine, infact i think harreit is but not ozzie
He looks, well, funny. He was born in March, a twin, and we pulled him from the cow and started bottle feeding. Yes to the colostrum, mother's and supplement, and vaccinations.
Up untill a week and a half ago we were feeding them 1 1/2 bottles each morning and evening. Plus a grain ration for dairy calves(the feed company says it's good for beef calves) made of corn, pellets, oats and such. Until they could clean up their grain they got 1 500g sour cream container each 2x a day. They got hay and fresh water. After reading on th boards we (i mean i) decided to drop to a bottle 2x a day and up their grain. They started to finishe their grain and they looked good. Or so I thouht. Harreit is handling this diet well. Ozzie, not so well. He lost some weight, started to look funny in the gut, (pot) and slow.
So on Monday, a week after changing his diet we went back to the bottle and a half 2x a day. He doesn't eat as much grain. HE is slower than the rest of the animals.

To top it off, he has a cough, only when he sucks the bottle. No other time. He gets flemmy when he sucks. After he is finshed, and coughed a few minutes he is okay. We have changed the nipples on the bottle, they were getting worn, with the smaller hole he still gets coughy. Not as bad but still.
Will upping his milk get him looking better? the cough? :help:
We gave both ozzie and harreit a shot of Trivetrin early in the week because i had to treat a bad scour calf in the barn, and the barn was ozzie and harreits shelter and i did not want them to get the scours. Did it in the barn because the momma has been nasty.(she must know she is on the list and is taking every opportunity to challenge me...she might not make the sale barn :shock: )
Back to the task at hand what can i do for ozzie to get him looking better. and Sounding better?
Tammy

 

[msscamp]

I have no doubt that I will get challenged on this, but Ozzie is coughing and sounding phlegmy(sp?) because he is hungry and, because of that, is trying to inhale his bottle - literally. He is sucking too fast and inhaling just enough milk to cause him to cough and rattle. Generally speaking, males tend to need a little more than females do - call it metabolism, call it hormones, call it whatever you want. You might want to think about increasing his milk replacer and breaking up his feedings into 3 feedings per day if possible. That just might do the trick with the coughing, and will also help with the pot gut. Another thing to consider as far as getting him to eat his grain better is a starter ration called AS70 - Hubbard feeds makes it. It is licorice flavored and, for some reason that is completely beyond me, calves love licorice. Laugh if you want to, but I've ran into the problem of getting calves to eat grain and AS70 has solved that problem for me every time. We also used it to encourage weaning calves to eat, and it never failed.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Okay so I'm not CRAZY. :shock: I thought i could smell licorice. So it must be simmilar, just a different brand name. Ours is feed rite gold medallion. Never heard of Hubbard. Canada/US thing?
More milk can be done. When there were three calves we switched from 20/20 milk replacer to the cheaper brand called big mama (about a month now) I know it's not as good and I'm not sure if it was wise. Now that we are feeding just two we might go back to the 20/20. Both are a feed rite product and one is half the price. 30 vs 60 cdn funds. thought the grain might balance them out.
More milk more often can be done, they are home now (boy was that a chore. Hand fed babies don't move well), instead of the calving area making it easier to get workwith them.
thank you
Tammy

 

[msscamp]

No, you're not crazy, although I can certainly relate to why you would think so. :lol: :lol: The first time I got a whiff of AS70 I couldn't believe it! The calves had already been on it for a day or so, and Dad said to just wait and watch. I couldn't believe what I was seeing - those calves heard that bag rattle and came at a dead run! We couldn't dump that feed fast enough. It could very well be a Canadian vs US thing, I don't know for sure. I can also relate to the cost of milk replacer, but always make sure it is at least 20% fat, and 20% protein - higher is better, but 20% will work. Another thing - you need to be sure that the milk replacer is milk byproducts and not soy. The list of ingredients will tell you which it is - the higher on the list, the more it contains.

 

[randiliana]

Okay so I'm not CRAZY. :shock: I thought i could smell licorice. So it must be simmilar, just a different brand name. Ours is feed rite gold medallion. Never heard of Hubbard. Canada/US thing?
More milk can be done. When there were three calves we switched from 20/20 milk replacer to the cheaper brand called big mama (about a month now) I know it's not as good and I'm not sure if it was wise. Now that we are feeding just two we might go back to the 20/20. Both are a feed rite product and one is half the price. 30 vs 60 cdn funds. thought the grain might balance them out.
More milk more often can be done, they are home now (boy was that a chore. Hand fed babies don't move well), instead of the calving area making it easier to get workwith them.
thank you
Tammy

Check your list of ingredients on the cheap stuff (I bet it DOESN"T say ALL MILK) and if it doesn't say all milk then you can bet it is soy based. We did the same thing. Changed to a cheaper brand (about $20/50 lb bag cheaper). Took about a week, but you could see the calves go downhill. So we mixed it off with the better stuff until it was gone. 2 feedings of the good stuff and 1 of the poor stuff.

As for feeding ours are on a 3 times a day schedule. Started at 4 pints 3 times a day, then reduced the middle feeding to 3 pints and now for the last 2 weeks or so we will drop to 3 pints 3 times a day. Calves look good, pretty shiny and you can't tell by looking that they are on the bottle. Grain wise they are also getting a Dairy calf starter. Ours is from the Co-op though. And of course water.

1 pint is pretty much = to 1/2 litre.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Randilana, when you say quart is that a 2 Litres bottle?

 

[KNERSIE]

When there were three calves we switched from 20/20 milk replacer to the cheaper brand called big mama (about a month now) I know it's not as good and I'm not sure if it was wise. Now that we are feeding just two we might go back to the 20/20.

Changing bottle calves' diets will almost always result in scours, next time decide on a good product and stick to it, there is a reason the one is so much cheaper. In the long run the calves will pay back the added investment in the better quality milk replacer.

 

[randiliana]

Randilana, when you say quart is that a 2 Litres bottle?

Yes, and I should have read the measurements on the bottles first They are 4 pint bottles NOT 4 quart bottles :shock: . And 1 pint = 1/2 litre (or close to it) So they were getting 6 litres of milk per day in 3 feedings, but are now down to 4.5 litres.

p.s. I edited my first post. AND now this one(twice) ;-) My math is off pretty bad today...

 

[rockridgecattle]

Since we have started to feed 3x a day and increased the amounts + using 20/20 milk replacer Ozzie has started to turn around. He seems brighter, more wanting to come and get the bottle, alittle more agressive. Even the eyes look brighter. I know it will be a bit before he looks like he did before but it has started. It's a shame they can't put the weight on as fast as they lose it.
Thank you for all your help

Tammy

 

[msscamp]

That is great, Tammy!

 

[randiliana]

Sounds like you have it figured out!! Good going.