Another Estrumate Question

[randiliana]

We have been thinking about syncronizing our heifers. We have to run them down the chute to vaccinate them for BVD, IBR etc. Since we do this about a month ahead of when we turn bulls out, would it work to Estrumate them then, and breed them in about 3 weeks? Rather than having to bring them home again in 3 weeks and run them down the chute again.

Here is what I am thinking. Say we Estrumate the heifers May 1, that should mean they will cycle again May 18-25. We would turn the bulls in about May 14 to catch the ones that cycled ahead of the Estrumate, and leave them until about May 26, when we would pull all but 1 of them. Then, we would leave that 1 bull with them for 1 more cycle (about June 20) when we would pull him, and then have a definite ending date for calving. This should mean that most of the heifers should calve just ahead of our cows, it would mean less work for us next calving season, more time for the heifers to clean up and rebreed, and hopefully bigger calves off them next fall.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If the heifers are cycling, that should work fine.
If you hit them on May 1, most will respond on May 3-4, so 17-23 days later they should be back into heat. That would mean the majority should be back in May 20-27. Your calculations were off 2 days (the time between shot & cycle).
Hope you have sufficient number of bulls. It will be a busy week. Might be better to split them off into smaller groups w/ bulls.

 

[randiliana]

If the heifers are cycling, that should work fine.
If you hit them on May 1, most will respond on May 3-4, so 17-23 days later they should be back into heat. That would mean the majority should be back in May 20-27. Your calculations were off 2 days (the time between shot & cycle).
Hope you have sufficient number of bulls. It will be a busy week. Might be better to split them off into smaller groups w/ bulls.

Thanks, Jeanne. And thanks for the correction. I knew about the time frame for it, but it slipped my mind.

We will be running 3 bulls with 40 head. I think that should do it. They are all mature bulls too.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[Northern Rancher]

I doubt if you'd get much synchrony by doing it that way-if you can feeding MGA for 14 days then injecting a prostaglandin 19 days later would tighten things up alot more.

 

[randiliana]

I doubt if you'd get much synchrony by doing it that way-if you can feeding MGA for 14 days then injecting a prostaglandin 19 days later would tighten things up alot more.

Can you elaborate on why you think this?? I figure that it should be similar to estrumating them 72 hours ahead of breeding. Might be a bit looser, but if the majority of them calve within the first 2 weeks of calving next year, we will have achieved our goal.

The biggest reason I want to try it this way, is that it lessens the amount of times we need to handle them. We have NO feed left, and MGA is pretty near impossible to find around here. So we can't afford to keep them in and feed them for 2 more weeks. They have been out for 2 weeks now. Plus, I don't want them that tight, as we are going to breed with bulls, and I don't want to over do it. We only have 3 bulls that we are willing to use on heifers. If they were to all cycle within 3 days, that would be at least 12 head a day. I think that would be pushing the bulls pretty hard....

 

[Northern Rancher]

The fourthur out from breeding you use a prostoglandin the less synchrony you will see-to start with they'll cyle over at least five days after the first shot-then when you add the different length of cycle cattle have you can see how it will string out. You have lots of bull power-if you want to be done in 21 days-breed for 21 days. I just think it would be some extra work for not that spectacular results. We did a synchronization with natural service trial for estrumate years ago. It's amazing how many cows a good bull can breed-one Charolais served 13 cows and settled 11 in one day. No romance in his soul lol. By all means give it a try but maybe just pulling bulls sooner might work as well.

 

[randiliana]

The fourthur out from breeding you use a prostoglandin the less synchrony you will see-to start with they'll cyle over at least five days after the first shot-then when you add the different length of cycle cattle have you can see how it will string out. You have lots of bull power-if you want to be done in 21 days-breed for 21 days. I just think it would be some extra work for not that spectacular results. We did a synchronization with natural service trial for estrumate years ago. It's amazing how many cows a good bull can breed-one Charolais served 13 cows and settled 11 in one day. No romance in his soul lol. By all means give it a try but maybe just pulling bulls sooner might work as well.

Well, I know it will stretch it out a bit. We are just doing it 1 cycle ahead of when we plan to turn the bulls out. The other thing is, that 2 of the 3 bulls, will be going on to bigger and better things after the heifers, we don't have enough bull power to leave 3 with the heifers for 21 days.

Here is the plan. Tomorrow, we will vaccinate and Estrumate the heifers. They will then go out on pasture. I expect the majority to cycle on Saturday though Monday (May 3-5). That should put them cycling again May 24 - 26. I know a few will be earlier, and a few will be later. About 1/3 would have not responded to the Estrumate anyways. So we will put the bulls out May 18 or so, and on the 26/27 we will remove 2 of the bulls. Those 2 will get to go on to the main herd for the breeding season which will start right about then. The other bull will stay with the heifers for 1 more cycle, and then I think we will pull him.

The biggest problem with simlply Estrumating them to cycle May 24-26, is that 1/3 that wouldn't have responded to the Estrumate. If we turned the bulls out earlier, I would have had to heat check, so we wouldn't Estrumate the ones that had already been in heat, and if we waited to turn the bulls out, those heifers wouldn't cycle for a couple more weeks. Less labour intensive is what I am looking at. Hopefully it works.....

 

[Northern Rancher]

Heck why not just synch them and I'll stop in and A'I them for you on the May long weekend lol. We'll be rodeoing down that neck of the woods then and again the first part of June.

 

[novatech]

If you don't want them that close together, then why bother with the time and expense of synch.?

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree with NR that I don't think the results is going to be spectacular. If possible to work them twice, why not inject Estrumate 3 May and again 14 May and put the bulls in the same time as the second injection. Theoretically they should then all cycle before 21 May?

 

[randiliana]

Well, the thing is I could AI them myself. But, when we have more than enough bulls for the entire cow herd, that is just an extra expense, that we don't need.

As for it not being spectacular, as far as I am concerned using Estrumate just isn't going to result in spectacular. First of all, 1/3 (approx)of the animals won't cycle to it. That is just because of the stage that they are in. We could give them another shot, but that is more $$, and then we need to bring them in and run them down the chute again. But, I agree, it would tighten the schedule up a lot.

If you are going to have a 3 day span anyways, 7 days isn't going to be that noticable. They are all going to calve over about a 2 week schedule regardless. Plus, this way, I can just kick the bulls out and not have to worry about heat checking in the week before we have to give the shot.

The goal here, is not so much to get them all bred in 3 days, but to increase the # that calve ahead of the main cowherd, without having to start calving in Early Febuary.

But, honestly, how long do you guys think this will stretch the program out? I already know that at the very least we are going to be breeding for about 10 days. 5 before the shot, and then the 5 days afterwards. What is this going to add to my schedule, or what am I missing??

 

[Northern Rancher]

Not often you do a synch program and hope for less than spectacular-I'd just save yourself some time and money but if you want to experiment go for it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I understand what you're trying to accomplish (I think) and your plan sounds good to me.
You are using the Estru as a "tool" - not as a sync program, so you can utilize your bulls with least cost/labor involved. Like I said before, sounds like a plan!

 

[randiliana]

I understand what you're trying to accomplish (I think) and your plan sounds good to me.
You are using the Estru as a "tool" - not as a sync program, so you can utilize your bulls with least cost/labor involved. Like I said before, sounds like a plan!

Exactly, Jeanne. Thank You.

It is done, and we will see how it works for us.