Another breed debate. Beefalo VS Simmentals

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Taurus,

You have some very interesting friends and neighbors. It must be very handy to have their knowledge base to pull from.
 
dun":1xx1mh2y said:
KMacGinley":1xx1mh2y said:
redcowsrule33":1xx1mh2y said:
No offense to those who have them but beefalo go into my "why?" category. Right along with alpacas and designer dogs. :mrgreen:

My red angus make me lol but not because they suck. Sorry you had a bad experience.

I guess I feel like beefalo are mules doing a horse's job. I am certain they have their merits. I have great respect for many Bos taurus/Bos indicus breeds. Why add Bison bison to the mix? If you like buffalo meat raise buffalo.

That being said, if you have a great beefalo calf, enjoy her. When it comes down to it, the breed behind a great animal is less important than the animal herself.

Please, beefalo peeple, don't send me propaganda I won't convert. But I respect you as breeders nonetheless.

PS Good for you to have some Simmis!

That was what the professor said... They are like mules/ they are sterile at the first cross. If this is true/ I wonder how they get away claiming them as buffalo cross?

Regardless of what the prof said, they are not all sterile. If they were there wouldn;t be a second cross. The Beefalo I've looked body wise more Holsteiny and not particularly beefy until the buffalo part was down below a 1/4.
Tere used to be 2 groups working on the hybridization. I don;t recall which was which. One group used buff cows and cattle bulls and the other used cattle cows and buff bulls. One hybred was called cattelo the other beefalo. Haven;t herd of cattelo in a long time.
From around the web:
According to the New York Times article, only 10,000 out of 300,000 bison are actually pure bison. So almost all bison are cattle-bison hybrids to some extent, except for the herds in Yellowstone, Wind Cave National Park, and a few others.

As far as evolution goes, the only offspring from a cattle-bison cross that can reproduce are those that are fertile. There may be some sterile offspring, but they won't contribute anything to future populations since they can't reproduce.

Both cattle and bison have 30 chromosomes, with about 25,000 or so genes, so I'm sure there are plenty of cattle genes that don't affect fertility, and vice versa.

The New York Times quoted James Derr, from the Texas A&M University, as saying that,

"They [cattle ranchers] purposely crossed bison with domestic cattle to make a better beef animal. Bison did better in harsh conditions and are more resistant to parasites and native viral diseases."

I suppose that helps explain, in part, why the hybrids are so prevalent.

dun, the US Wildlife Service brought Bison onto the Rocky Mtn Arsenal near Denver when I worked there from 2005-2010. They were each genetically verified as a native pure Bison. They came to the Arsenal from the National Bison Range in western Montana near Flathead Lake. Most of the Bision in North America are bison/cattle hybrids. The Rocky Mtn Arsenal is where the defense dept experimented with mustard gas and sarin gas during WW I and I think it continued into WW II.
 
I had a 22 year old cow that suddenly stopped calving, so we had her butchered, she had growths on her ovaries. That could happen with any cow. She was a grand champion. According to the records the guy had before I purchased her, and my own, including 2 sets of twins in her lifetime, she calved 24 calves. Can you imagine that out of an Angus? Also her teeth, although starting to wear, were still in fair shape when she was slaughtered.
We had to DNA test, first blood, later tail hair to UC Davis in California. I have a theory, it is my own, that Bison, and Cattle are the same species, only changes within the species brought out certain traits over a long period of time.
The DNA test were so specific, that they could tell you if the sire was really another bull than you thought when you filled out the paperwork to register them.
Beefalo prefer better grass, but certainly will eat just about anything if needed. Interesting about the Rocky Mtn Arsenal herd.
 
Beefalocw":2abhenz8 said:
Beefalo are fertile, and gentle. The first generations are more iffy on being fertile, but by the time you get 37.5% bison they are very fertile. In order to register a full blood, you have to pay for a DNA test from UC Davis for bison markers. There are 20 distinct bison markers, and you can't register without having a certain number of these markers present in your cattle.

I have had a couple of 2500 lb bulls that were as gentle as a dog. One used to scratch his head on my truck bumper, and would pick the truck up over a foot just scratching his head. They like to be brushed, and petted. They handle weather better than most cattle, as they have 5 layers of hair and they have sweat glands. When most cattle are layed up under a tree, beefalo will be out eating, making you money.

The meat is much leaner than regular beef, but is naturally tender. As with all lean meat, cooking time is reduced, and can overcook if cooked as regular beef, so reduced temperature, and cooking time is the rule.

It is low in Cholesterol, and is recommended by the heart association.

I certainly don't care what breed of cattle you raise, but felt I needed to defend beefalo a little. Having sweat glands is important here in the South, so I recommend a least some beefalo in the mix, or a little Brahma as they are the only 2 breeds that allow your cattle to sweat.

Check out the facts instead of just posting thoughts about fertility, etc without basis.

http://ranchers.net/photopost/showphoto ... puser/5447

Thanks for that. You mentioned your theory that Bison and cattle are the same species or were the same species until they developed different traits. That is likely, as most Bovidae all have a common ancestor in their evolutionary history. That is how species originate. For example, if a population of animals are separated by a physical barrier into two separate populations that cannot reproduce with each other, they eventually become two separate species due to the isolation of their genetic pools. The Bison on Rocky Mtn Arsenal are Bison bison; domestic cattle are Bos premigenius.

PS BTW, those Bison that were introduced on the Rocky Mtn Arsenal near Denver (Commerce City, to be exact) were put there with the idea in mind to provide another population of the pure Bison should a disease hit the herd on the National Bison Refuge. I also saw above that someone mentioned the bison being pure at Yellowstone. There may be some that are pure but many are contaminated due to mixing with the cattle herds that graze near the park. In fact, Montana at one time would allow you to kill bison in a seasonal hunt that ranged off the park. There was a concern among ranchers that the bison would carry brucellosis to their cattle. The hunt was ended because of the bad press it was getting from animal groups.
 
PS BTW, those Bison that were introduced on the Rocky Mtn Arsenal near Denver (Commerce City, to be exact) were put there with the idea in mind to provide another population of the pure Bison should a disease hit the herd on the National Bison Refuge. I also saw above that someone mentioned the bison being pure at Yellowstone. There may be some that are pure but many are contaminated due to mixing with the cattle herds that graze near the park. In fact, Montana at one time would allow you to kill bison in a seasonal hunt that ranged off the park. There was a concern among ranchers that the bison would carry brucellosis to their cattle. The hunt was ended because of the bad press it was getting from animal groups.[/quote]


You sure about that?
 
3waycross":gnsd9zo9 said:
PS BTW, those Bison that were introduced on the Rocky Mtn Arsenal near Denver (Commerce City, to be exact) were put there with the idea in mind to provide another population of the pure Bison should a disease hit the herd on the National Bison Refuge. I also saw above that someone mentioned the bison being pure at Yellowstone. There may be some that are pure but many are contaminated due to mixing with the cattle herds that graze near the park. In fact, Montana at one time would allow you to kill bison in a seasonal hunt that ranged off the park. There was a concern among ranchers that the bison would carry brucellosis to their cattle. The hunt was ended because of the bad press it was getting from animal groups.


You sure about that?[/quote]
3 way, First, I don't have personal proof but you could say it comes from people that should know. When I worked as one of the Remedial Project Managers overseeing the remediation of construction activities by the Dept of Defense, the introduction of Bison onto the Arsenal was occurring. As best I can recall, the US Wildlife Service folks at the Arsenal always stressed the importance of getting genetically pure Bison. I remember specifically asking why the Bison did not come from Yellowstone. If I remember correctly, they are contaminated genetically. The history of Yellowstone includes summer range for cattle before it became a park. I am guessing that the few Bison that remained before it became a park were mixed grazed with cattle and probably crossed. Anyway, the main point is that the National Bison Refuge in Montana was found at the time to have the purest lines of Bison. Even the Bison in Alberta and BC are contaminated.
 
I would like to add one thing. All cattle breeds have sweat glands, on all of their bodies. :2cents:
 
No, all cattle breeds do not have sweat glands, most have to pant like a dog. Only cattle with either Bison, or Brahma in them have sweat glands.
 
Beefalocw":kr07375f said:
No, all cattle breeds do not have sweat glands, most have to pant like a dog. Only cattle with either Bison, or Brahma in them have sweat glands.

I am pretty sure that even English breeds have some sweat glands in their noses!
 
Bigfoot":2yv8j7do said:
Taurus,

You have some very interesting friends and neighbors. It must be very handy to have their knowledge base to pull from.
Bigfoot,

Says by someone with a half corriente bull and do experiment on the cattle to crossbreeding with different breeds for no reason.
 
Beefalocw":gzx5xdiw said:
I had a 22 year old cow that suddenly stopped calving, so we had her butchered, she had growths on her ovaries. That could happen with any cow. She was a grand champion. According to the records the guy had before I purchased her, and my own, including 2 sets of twins in her lifetime, she calved 24 calves. Can you imagine that out of an Angus? Also her teeth, although starting to wear, were still in fair shape when she was slaughtered.
We had to DNA test, first blood, later tail hair to UC Davis in California. I have a theory, it is my own, that Bison, and Cattle are the same species, only changes within the species brought out certain traits over a long period of time.
The DNA test were so specific, that they could tell you if the sire was really another bull than you thought when you filled out the paperwork to register them.
Beefalo prefer better grass, but certainly will eat just about anything if needed. Interesting about the Rocky Mtn Arsenal herd.
I can't remember how old the beefalo cow was when my friend brought her from an exotic sale, but she was already mature cow. That was back in 2001 and she is still kicking to this day. Pretty very docile cow.
 
Taurus

The corriente is only for hiefers, charlois on 2nd calf and up. My wolf shitzu hybreds are growing. I thought you got mad and quit?
 
About the sweat glands... I'm 99% certain my cattle sweat... we get 105F in the shade around here, and often my cows are out in full sun and do quite well, without panting... they're a combination of shorthorn, Saler, and gelbveih for the most part.... And I've never seen a cow that didn't sweat on her nose.
 
Look it up, except for the noted sweat glands in the nose, brama, and beefalo are the two bloodlines with sweatglands on the skin. Maybe you have some of one or the other bloodline in your cattle. It is well known that regular european breeds of cattle and other regular bovine breeds can't sweat except the nose. I don't have any idea how hot it gets in Canada, but a quick search with your favorite search engine, or a vet book will confirm this. With 5 layers of hair and sweat glands on beefalo, it is kindof like an air conditioning system for them with a small breeze.
 
Why Raise Beefalo
By Larry Hacker

Some time ago, a neighbor dropped in at our farm to see some of the Beefalo that he had been hearing about. As we looked over a group of heifers grazing nearby, he commented that they were pretty good-looking animals, but that he had really come to look at BEEFALO! I explained that he was looking at a selection of Beefalo, ranging from about 18 percent bison to about 36 percent bison.

"But where is the hump?" he wanted to know. "Where is the shaggy hair and the uniform brown color? If it looks like a cow, eats like a cow, acts like a cow and bawls like a cow, why bother with Beefalo?"

Just what are the advantages of Beefalo over ordinary bovine animals? Perhaps we should start with a definition. A Beefalo is a hybrid cross between a bison and a domestic beef cow and contains between 17 percent and 37.5 percent bison blood. The intent in raising Beefalo is to combine the most favorable traits of the bison with the most favorable traits of a domestic bovine animal in order to produce a genetically superior animal capable of efficiently producing higher quality red meat.

The bison ancestor of modern Beefalo is a vigorous, rugged, hardy, healthy product of natural selection of the fittest animal to survive. The bison is an efficient grazing animal willing to eat almost anything. Obviously, the bison likes the "good stuff"-tender young plants, high in energy content; however he will readily clean up the "tough" forages, to include many weed varieties that domestic cattle avoid. This foraging ability is passed on to his Beefalo descendants.

No veterinarians were available to assist buffalo cows in delivering their calves. Therefore, by natural selection, easy calving cows survived. The rest perished. The bison ancestors passed along this easy-calving trait to the Beefalo. Average calf size depends, of course, on many factors, including nutrition, the domestic breed background, season of the year, etc., but the average Beefalo calf probably weighs between 50 and 75 pounds.

You will recall that bison herds were vast. Therefore, to obtain adequate forage they were constantly on the move. The bison baby had to be on its feet quickly, learn to nurse promptly and have sufficient stamina to keep up with the moving herd at a very young age. Beefalo babies inherit this stamina from the bison ancestors. It is not unusual to see a Beefalo calf one hour old already with a belly full of milk, dashing around his mother with his tail in the air.

The American bison ranged over much of the North American continent-from the hot, dry Southwest to the bitterly cold plains of the northern United States and Canada. Unlike the bovine species, the bison has sweat glands to help him stay cool in the hot summer sun. He also has an extremely dense hair growth, with 2 to 5 times as many hair follicles per square inch of hide as do domestic cattle. The Beefalo hybrid animal inherits the dense hair coat and the sweat glands of his bison ancestors. Therefore, the Beefalo is readily adaptable to extremes in climate. Now don't get me wrong; Beefalo enjoy shade trees in the summer and protection form the worst of winter weather. But they adapt to extremes much more readily than their bovine ancestors.

The bison grew well on a diet consisting entirely of forages. He produced very lean meat, almost devoid of intramuscular fat. The Beefalo hybrid animal inherits this ability to convert forages into lean, tender, juicy, tasty meat that is decidedly lower in calories due to the reduced fat content. An added benefit is that with lower fat content, there is a MUCH lower cholesterol content in Beefalo beef than in domestic beef. The U.S. Department of Agriculture-approved laboratories have determined that Beefalo beef rivals fish and skinned chicken in cholesterol content.

Meat packers find that there is very little waste when processing the Beefalo carcass due to the very thin external fat covering. A packer in Kentucky told me that when he processes an average 1200-pound steer, from 50 to 100 pounds of waste fat is tossed into the fat barrel. He says that almost no fat is discarded from an equivalent Beefalo carcass.

Well, you say, if the bison heritage of the Beefalo can do all these things, why not raise bison and forget Beefalo?

The Beefalo animal inherits some mighty important traits from his bovine ancestors as well as from his bison ancestors. First of all, consider the physical structure of the bison. Some say he is "all hump and no rump." The best steaks and roasts-the expensive cuts-come from the hind quarter of the beef animal. The bison carcass contains a very high percentage of its mass in the front quarters which contain the chuck cuts and meat suitable for ground beef-the cheap meat. The Beefalo animal inherits its physical structure from its bovine ancestry, thereby significantly enhancing its carcass value over the bison.

The bison is basically a wild animal! Experienced buffalo ranchers will state that you can drive a buffalo anywhere he wants to go and keep him anywhere he wants to stay. They are extremely hard to pen. They are aggressive and, some say, born destroyers of gates and fences. Beefalo, on the other hand, inherit the bovine temperament. They act like their cow relatives and are easy to handle and work with.

Another distinct advantage of the Beefalo is its growthiness. The average bison calf may weigh only 350 pounds at one year of age and does not reach sexual maturity until the age of two. The bison heifer normally produces its first calf as a three-year-old. The Beefalo inherits its rapid growth from the bovine side. Beefalo calves grow as fast as bovine calves, reach sexual maturity as yearlings and produce their first calf crop as two-year-olds.

The Beefalo animal is bred and selected to take advantage of the best traits of both its bovine and bison ancestors. The Beefalo is small at birth, grows rapidly, matures early, is easy to handle, and produces excellent quality table beef on a forage based diet. The meat is very low in fat and cholesterol, while retaining its tenderness and excellent taste.

Investigate Beefalo! Perhaps you should be raising Beefalo animals and consuming their superior beef! For more information or to contact a breeder near you, or call 1-800-BEEFALO
 
Beefalocw":11tpvmh8 said:
Look it up, except for the noted sweat glands in the nose, brama, and beefalo are the two bloodlines with sweatglands on the skin. Maybe you have some of one or the other bloodline in your cattle. It is well known that regular european breeds of cattle and other regular bovine breeds can't sweat except the nose. I don't have any idea
:bs:
Notice please how I shortened the quote. Ideally it should read: "I have no idea". :bang: :bang:
Take a cow in winter coat, a swedish red, a limousine, a blonde, a crossbreed, a piedmontese, my developing composite, a highland, a charolais, any of the heritage breeds, or a simmenthal. Put this hairy cow with her herd in a small indoor area overnight. The cow will be wet. THE COW WILL BE WET! Why will the cow be wet? SWEAT.
The breeds listed above are my hands on experience, none of them are bison influenced, none brahman influenced. :2cents:
 
I just read this thread... Wow... I e been researching Beefalo off and on for 6 years... Peoe who made some of these posts obviously haven't done any and consider an opinion they heard of someone else as factual information. Craziness! Even professors and news outlets do it. In fact, looking at two articles from that Mother Earth pub state completely the opposite as fact about Beefalo! Other peoe argue that they are not a breed. Did not ALL breeds start as something else crossed with another?

Did these cattle/buffalo crosses fail once? Yes. Why? At that time do to the lack of popularity of the man "hoarding" the breed turned into controversy and DNA testing. Was that testing anywhere near as good as it is today? Not hardly. Were the people doing the testing as knowledgable as those who do it today? Nope. Testing done on the same DNA today shows different results than what those in the past concluded do to the similarity of the crossed animals.

How are Beefalo doing now? Are any breeders from this thread ready to post up current trends in today's beef market?
 
wildcatkit52":1tzusewz said:
I just read this thread... Wow... I e been researching Beefalo off and on for 6 years... Peoe who made some of these posts obviously haven't done any and consider an opinion they heard of someone else as factual information. Craziness! Even professors and news outlets do it. In fact, looking at two articles from that Mother Earth pub state completely the opposite as fact about Beefalo! Other peoe argue that they are not a breed. Did not ALL breeds start as something else crossed with another?

Did these cattle/buffalo crosses fail once? Yes. Why? At that time do to the lack of popularity of the man "hoarding" the breed turned into controversy and DNA testing. Was that testing anywhere near as good as it is today? Not hardly. Were the people doing the testing as knowledgable as those who do it today? Nope. Testing done on the same DNA today shows different results than what those in the past concluded do to the similarity of the crossed animals.

How are Beefalo doing now? Are any breeders from this thread ready to post up current trends in today's beef market?

Might try putting her in low, before you hammer it next time.
 

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