Angus x Char. pics

[cow_girl_675]

Wanted to post our 4 Angus x Charolais cows we kept. I posted pics of them when they were about 3 months old. Wanted to see what ya'll thought of them.
http://www.geocities.com/wlsbrock/cows2
They are the last 4 on the page, links to their Sire and Dam are under their names.

Bullet

Fiona

Luna

Stardust

 

[suscofa]

Great! They are beautiful!! I may try this combination at some point. Does this cross produce good maternal instincts? Good milk? Gentle?

 

[xbred]

go back over them with a good herford, you'll like the cross...

 

[suscofa]

What would they look like if I went back with another Angus? Dark gray or black? Or smokey? If I went with a herf they would probably be red baldie right?

 

[milkmaid]

If I went with a herf they would probably be red baldie right?

I'm no expert on beef cattle, but I think the calf would look kind of like this one...

Unless this is an F1 Char/Herf cross. :???:

 

[NamVet_Farmer44]

No herf. Smokey grays bring more at sale time.

the smokies aint bringing much of nothing around here right now...but that's just in my part of the country

 

[cow_girl_675]

Great! They are beautiful!! I may try this combination at some point. Does this cross produce good maternal instincts? Good milk? Gentle?

they are still carrying their first calves, they will calve sometime near the end of this year, but they are all very gentle.

 

[cow_girl_675]

I'll post some pics of their calves, not sure if our blk angus bull bred them or our tarentaise bull, might be a mix.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

ALL are merely average potential BEEF producers!

Bullet - Good topline, level rump but needs heavier bone and shows weak hindquarters.

Fiona - This heifer is a more beef type heifer than Bullet, but appears cowhocked and needs more bone. She has a good head, and should make a fairly good brood cow if she is bred to a really good BEEF BULL! Better hindquarters than the Bullet cow.

Stardust - Very good "breedy" head showing good beef cattle characteristics. Well defined foreleg. Needs to be deeper through the heart girth, and poor 'Funnel Butt' hindquarters.

Luna - Her head is too large in proportion to her body, although the camera angle may have something to do with that problem, however she needs more bone, has a sloping rump, weak hindquarters, is pinched in the heart girth.

You didn't ask for comments on the sire of these heifers, but I feel compelled to do so anyway! G A Rito F54 is SO weak in the hindquarters and demonstrates an exaggerated FUNNEL BUTT! This is the prime reason for your heifers ALL showing this weak hindquarters trait! Look at him critically and don't be BARN BLIND!

Fireball - Very lacking in the hindquarters and shallow flanked. Cross-breeding with this bull will not benefit you genotypically or genetically.

Cocoa - This is a very bad picture and poor positioning of the bull to be able to analyse his characteristics adequately. His hindquarters are insufficient and inadequate. Funnel Butt!

Diesel is your best BEEF BULL, but needs more spring of rib and a deeper flank. How will he balance the Phenotype and Genotype of your cows?

In order to successfully and CONSISTENTLY breed profit-making Beef Cattle, one must incorporate the very best BULL genetics that is possible, year after year after year! You can lose 15 - 20 years of careful grading-up of your herd by using one generation of an unsatisfactory bull!

I know that you didn't request this critique, but I felt obligated to offer my opinion anyway. Breeding Beef Cattle is a tough business, and you can throw away years of effort and MONEY in an unguarded moment.

DOC HARRIS

 

[suscofa]

Doc....You may be right, but you're a hard ass!! I still think they are sharp. You know more than me I am sure,.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Doc....You may be right, but you're a hard ass!! I still think they are sharp. You know more than me I am sure,.

SUSCOFA -

You ARE right! I AM a hard ass! Always have been - Always will be! This is a hard ass business - - just as this is a hard ass life. Nobody is going to GIVE you anything. You have to earn it the hard ass way! Anything less is wimping out and caving in! If you are satisfied with being barn blind and settling for junk - hop to it! You can't be a sentimental breeder!

Your choice.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm2]

I agree with most of Doc's analysis; but Rome was not built in a day and we have been seeing pics of Kiku's cows for a while now. They have gotten progressively better. If Kiku can keep her grass ahead of her cows, puts up enough hay for the winter, and avoids the "CHEAP BULL" syndrome I think all will be well. You can criticize them all you want to; but unload a buch of long, lanky, lean Char calves with a bunch of compensatory gain potential in them at the sale barn and the buyers go ga ga.

 

[Arkieman]

Stardust - Very good "breedy" head showing good beef cattle characteristics. DOC HARRIS

Could you elaborate on what a breedy head is? I'm guessing you mean the look of her head leads you to believe she is more fertile/better maternally?

Thanks

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree with most of Doc's analysis; but Rome was not built in a day and we have been seeing pics of Kiku's cows for a while now. They have gotten progressively better. If Kiku can keep her grass ahead of her cows, puts up enough hay for the winter, and avoids the "CHEAP BULL" syndrome I think all will be well. You can criticize them all you want to; but unload a buch of long, lanky, lean Char calves with a bunch of compensatory gain potential in them at the sale barn and the buyers go ga ga.

I agree with Brandonm2, they are not perfect, but I wouldn't mind if they were mine, I have commercial cows that didn't look much better at their age that turned out great producing cows, the right bull will do wonders for the calves.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I agree with most of Doc's analysis; but Rome was not built in a day and we have been seeing pics of Kiku's cows for a while now. They have gotten progressively better. If Kiku can keep her grass ahead of her cows, puts up enough hay for the winter, and avoids the "CHEAP BULL" syndrome I think all will be well. You can criticize them all you want to; but unload a buch of long, lanky, lean Char calves with a bunch of compensatory gain potential in them at the sale barn and the buyers go ga ga.

As I have not been on Ranchers.net for some time, I did not realize that these heifers were Kiku's. Yes, I DO see a vast difference since her first posts! Well done, Kiku! But my 'Evaluations' of these heifers, being objective, still stand as stated. But improvement, as Brandonm2 said, takes time, and particularly in the cow business - inasmuch as three years from being a calf to being a 'provable' producer is agonizing when you want results "Right Now - Right NOW!" But she is getting there!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm2]

It is a little hard for me to get too critical of the "funnel butt" problem in Kiku's Angus when I probably could pull out calves with that same problem in 80% of the reg Angus breeder's herds, including most of the top breeders (in #s of registrations). That naturally tends to filter out to the entire calf Angus nation through the multipliers. I don't want to do anything to hurt my hard*ss image and get all effusive with the praise; but considering where the Kiku herd has been......I think we have to grudgingly admit that she is now IN the cow business.

 

[cow_girl_675]

Sry for the bad pic of our Cocoa bull, he doesn't like standing still, here is one i think is somewhat better for a view of his rear, you'll have to let me know though.

As you can see on our bulls page on our site, we have gotten ride of the Coldspring bull, i think u all remember him, and our Tarentaise bull. Our Coldspring bull did add a larger frame to his calves, and they grow very fast. We only have 3 out of the Tarentaise and they are all heifers. 2 of them have horns, which is why he is gone, but we dont know if we will keep any of the calves or not.

The Cocoa bull and the Diesel bull are both Gelbvieh, but i believe they will both be better bulls than we have had in the past, and i think they will improve the calves we have in the future.

 

[cow_girl_675]

Here are some pics of our bull Coldspring crossed with our char. calves.

This guy weighted at least 100lbs when he was born.

This one actually has a rear, bad pic i know.

 

[KNERSIE]

Do I understand you correctly that you run three bulls? If so it means you have about 100 cows?

If its less than that, how about trading all the bulls in and get one good one?

The Cocoa bull doesn't really look like a herd improver to me, he looks to have very poor shoulder structure, too long fronted, too little depth and capacity, too fine boned and really not much of a hindquarter. Not masculine enough for me to consider keeping heifers out of him.

With the Char X angus heifers you have, you really need a higher quality beefier bull to complliment them.

 

[cow_girl_675]

Do I understand you correctly that you run three bulls? If so it means you have about 100 cows?

If its less than that, how about trading all the bulls in and get one good one?

The Cocoa bull doesn't really look like a herd improver to me, he looks to have very poor shoulder structure, too long fronted, too little depth and capacity, too fine boned and really not much of a hindquarter. Not masculine enough for me to consider keeping heifers out of him.

With the Char X angus heifers you have, you really need a higher quality beefier bull to complliment them.

We only have and will run 2 bulls for now. The Cocoa bull is on our commercial cows, the Diesel bull will be on our Charolais and Char. crosses. So the Cocoa bull will most likely never be with the Char. group. We have about 40 cows now, so we are still working on making up our herds.